Systemd free MX19?

[figueroa]

My preference would be no systemd. What software, other than Gnome, actually requires systemd from the upstream source?

[dolphin_oracle]

My preference would be no systemd. What software, other than Gnome, actually requires systemd from the upstream source?

Snapd and some badly packaged stuff from third parties where they supply systemd unit service.files but.not sysvinit.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

What software, other than Gnome, actually requires systemd from the upstream source?

The nftables package only supplies a systemd unit file, no init script is included. This means it cannot be autostarted at boot unless a custom script is provided.

Debian buster will use nftables instead of iptables by default so this may be important.

I'm sure there will be other packages so afflicted, it is required that they provide systemd unit files but sysvinit scripts are optional.

Oh, and OpenBSD have managed to get GNOME working without systemd btw.

[timkb4cq]

The nftables package only supplies a systemd unit file, no init script is included. This means it cannot be autostarted at boot unless a custom script is provided.

You mean like the script provided in the nftables package at
/usr/share/doc/nftables/examples/sysvinit/nftables.init
?

Debian doesn't install it in init.d because they default to systemd but nftables does still include it.

[KBD]

Idealogically I want no systemd. Pragmatically I'm booting into it right now because without it my wifi is wonky.
This is going to be a big choice for MX very soon. I'll use MX with or without systemd where I can. But if sysVinit gets in my way I'll have to use something else.
This problem is not going away. Once Red Hat, then Debian jumped aboard the systemd train problems were sure to follow without it. Get ready to jump through hoops if we only use sysVinit. Some will be displeased if we use systemd, but I expect MX will have far fewer problems even if we are ideologically less happy with systemd.

[uncle mark]

Idealogically I want no systemd. Pragmatically I'm booting into it right now because without it my wifi is wonky.
This is going to be a big choice for MX very soon. I'll use MX with or without systemd where I can. But if sysVinit gets in my way I'll have to use something else.

Ideology is the enemy of pragmatism. And vice versa.

[KBD]

Ideology is the enemy of pragmatism. And vice versa.

Agreed.
Anything which depends upon systemd now or in the future is going to bite us if we can only choose one init, and it isn't systemd. Great that we had the option to have both up until now, but that's going away.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

The nftables package only supplies a systemd unit file, no init script is included. This means it cannot be autostarted at boot unless a custom script is provided.

You mean like the script provided in the nftables package at
/usr/share/doc/nftables/examples/sysvinit/nftables.init
?

Ah, I didn't spot that — thanks for correcting me

So the problem is actually that the sysvinit user must be aware of that script and must know where to copy it to be able to use update-rc.d(8) and enable it.

Debian doesn't install it in init.d because they default to systemd but nftables does still include it.

Well actually it's the package itself that doesn't install the script in the correct location, many other packages in buster do supply scripts in /etc/init.d/

And as I mentioned, sysvinit scripts are now optional rather than mandatory in Debian buser so this may become more problematic in the future if upstream developers and/or package maintainers don't bother supplying them.

[AK-47]

Idealogically I want no systemd. Pragmatically I'm booting into it right now because without it my wifi is wonky.

Systemd or no systemd I don't care, so long as it works.
It better be reliable by the time it becomes mandatory.

[kernelkurtz]

Some of the logic in this thread escapes me.

I was an early adopter of Manjaro mainly because the OpenRC version was quite perfect. When they decided it wasn't going to be supported, I jumped ship and came to MX. For my purpose it was the closest thing to the dead distro I loved.

systemd is not the future of Linux. It's the future of Linux as mangled by corporations. It's the co-opting we have to fear--systemd is just one symptom of that mangling.

Even so, should MX adopt it, I'll jump ship again. Based on anti's contributions above, I might not even have to jump too far ...

But out beyond AntiX there's the Void, and Obarun, and all the little Devuan spin-offs, and Gentoo and Salix ...

I don't want to overstate the importance of being the Resistance to the question of why first Manjaro and then MX shot to the top of the charts at DW. Maybe it's a coincidence. And, maybe not. The other major commonality I see is a warm and very active community forum. And ... Xfce, too, right? So who knows. Correlation is not causation.

It's not my place to say "Keep Fighting". I ain't no senator's son, and I don't like being a demanding assmonkey. But on some level, I personally will keep fighting, like a mad Japanese soldier on a Pacific island in 1983, until they bury me or the "Foundation" makes systemd a hard dependency for bash and vim.

Venceremos.