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A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

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oops
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A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#1

Post by oops » Fri May 10, 2019 6:33 pm

Hello,
Juste a question and maybe a feedback ....
Who has already tested this kind of kernel ?

http://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/li ... ex.en.html
...GNU Linux-libre, Free as in Freedo
Linux, the kernel developed and distributed by Linus Torvalds et al, contains non-Free Software, i.e., software that does not respect your essential freedoms, and it induces you to install additional non-Free Software that it doesn't contain. Even after allegedly moving all firmware to a separate project as of release 4.14, Linux so-called "sources" published by Mr Torvalds still contain non-Free firmware disguised as source code...
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -Libre-5.1
...GNU Linux-libre 5.1-gnu Released As The Kernel Continues To Be Deblobbed
LINUX KERNEL --
Hot off the release of Linux 5.1 from last night, the Free Software Foundation Latin America team has released GNU Linux-libre 5.1-gnu as their sanitized kernel that strips out support for loading binary-only microcode/firmware files, the ability to load binary-only kernel modules, and related code they deem supporting "non-free" software...
$ inxi -Fxxxz : System: Host:XEON ... Distro: MX-18_x64 Continuum

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Stevo
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#2

Post by Stevo » Fri May 10, 2019 7:42 pm

I wonder how many machines will run with that kernel and no firmware. Also, all storage drives contain non-free firmware, so they shouldn't have those in their machines, either.

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JayM
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#3

Post by JayM » Fri May 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Linux so-called "sources" published by Mr Torvalds still contain non-Free firmware disguised as source code.
Stopped reading right there. Whoever wrote this is pushing some sort of vendetta and/or has no idea what he or she's talking about. "So-called 'sources'"? "Firmware disguised as source code"? How do you disguise firmware or anything else as source code? If it's programming code anybody that knows how can read it and see what it is and does. Everything's right there in the open. What they're saying doesn't even make any logical sense whatsoever. It's like saying a library contains non-free (copyrighted) literature disguised as words.

The last time I checked, CPU microcode was installable as an optional package. Are the "FSFLA" complaining because the kernel contains support ("hooks") for it? Since their "libre" kernel lacks any support of any non-free drivers/modules/etc. let's see how well it works with Nvidia GPUs and Broadcom wifi chips.

Code: Select all

$ whois fsfla.org
Domain Name: FSFLA.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D105867313-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.gandi.net
Registrar URL: http://www.gandi.net
Updated Date: 2019-02-08T09:08:12Z
Creation Date: 2005-03-11T10:41:31Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2020-03-11T10:41:31Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Gandi SAS
Registrar IANA ID: 81
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@support.gandi.net
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +33.170377661
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registrant Organization:
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Country: BR
Name Server: NS1.FSFLATINOAMERICA.ORG
Name Server: NS2.FSFLATINOAMERICA.ORG
Name Server: NS1.FSFLA.ORG
Name Server: NS2.FSFLA.ORG
Name Server: NS1.FSFLATINAMERICA.ORG
Name Server: NS1.LINUXLIBRE.ORG
Name Server: NS2.LINUXLIBRE.ORG
Name Server: NS2.FSFLATINAMERICA.ORG
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form https://www.icann.org/wicf/)
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2019-05-11T00:07:12Z <<<

"Registrant Country: BR". Hmm. Didn't they recently elect a far-right-wing president? I wonder if he has anything to do with this. (Edit: never mind, that was a dumb thing to say. The domain was registered in 2005.)
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dolphin_oracle
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#4

Post by dolphin_oracle » Fri May 10, 2019 9:21 pm

Stevo wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:42 pm
I wonder how many machines will run with that kernel and no firmware. Also, all storage drives contain non-free firmware, so they shouldn't have those in their machines, either.
usually these "libre" kernels support open-source firmware, like atheros wireless devices (ath5k is in my EEPC904ha, which works pretty well with libre kernels).

however, intel wifi firmware blobs are not open-source, so libre kernels typically cannot use iwlwifi and other intel wifi drivers. and they prevent loading of non-free firmware as well, making them great as a test in freedom-purity but not very practical on the ol' thinkpad.

but more power to 'em.
http://www.youtube.com/runwiththedolphin
lenovo ThinkPad T530 - MX-18
lenovo s21e - MX-18, antiX-17.3.1 (live-USB)
FYI: mx "test" repo is not the same thing as debian testing repo.

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JayM
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#5

Post by JayM » Fri May 10, 2019 9:57 pm

Per www.marketshare.com Linux has 2% of the market share on end-users' computers (Windows has 87%, Mac OS has almost 10%, the remainder is Chrome OS, BSD and "other".) The Libre-only Linux (Oh, sorry Richard: GNU/Linux) users might account for 1% of Linux end-users, so that's only 0.02% of all computer end-users. Do they really think that this miniscule number of users is going to drive hardware manufacturers to open their firmware's source code?
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Artim
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#6

Post by Artim » Sat May 11, 2019 5:10 am

I'm with @Dolphin_Oracle on this one. I wish them well, but for all the bluster and claims of moral superiority, the Neckbeard's totally libre kernel won't work on 99.8% of hardware. Just for grins and giggles I tried Trisquel ("purified" GNU/Linux) on a couple of computers and had all kindsa issues getting stuff to work properly, from networking to printing. My efforts were ultimately unsuccessful of course, even trying the "solutions" offered in their documentation and forums. God bless them, but it would take totally libre (and affordable, accessible) hardware to make their dream of totally libre software a reality.

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oops
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#7

Post by oops » Sat May 11, 2019 6:03 am

... Thank you all for your feedback and pertinent remarks, basically this concept of deblobbed kernels seems to be mostly tactic and strategic, to try to avoid an hegemonic situation, from someone to keep the control. But pragmatically it will be probably difficult to use this kind of kernels into 100% of the cases. But I guess I will give a try latter, just to see.
$ inxi -Fxxxz : System: Host:XEON ... Distro: MX-18_x64 Continuum

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#8

Post by Head_on_a_Stick » Sat May 11, 2019 6:18 am

The Debian kernel is already de-blobbed, that's why the firmware packages are separate.

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oops
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#9

Post by oops » Sat May 11, 2019 6:43 am

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:18 am
The Debian kernel is already de-blobbed, that's why the firmware packages are separate.
... Or almost ... microcodes still inside.
$ inxi -Fxxxz : System: Host:XEON ... Distro: MX-18_x64 Continuum

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: A really free Kernel Deblobbed ...

#10

Post by Head_on_a_Stick » Sat May 11, 2019 6:46 am

oops wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 6:43 am
microcodes still inside.
Nope.

https://packages.debian.org/search?keyw ... ection=all

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