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RAID 10 options [Solved]

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Mauser
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Re: RAID 10 options

#11

Post by Mauser » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:18 pm

BitJam wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:11 pm
Please post the output of:

Code: Select all

sudo lsblk -o name,maj:min,fstype,size,label 
If the RAID device shows up, make sure it is clear which one it is. If it doesn't show up, please let us know that. Also, the make and model info of the hardware RAID may be useful. Thanks!
That was suggested on Linuxquestions forum and all it shows is the USB thumb drive. NAME MAJ:MIN FSTYPE SIZE LABEL
loop0 7:0 squashfs 1.3G
sda 8:0 14.6G
├─sda1 8:1 ext4 14.6G MX-Live-usb
└─sda2 8:2 vfat 50M MX-uefi
As for the RAID Controller it's, AMD-RAID Array Configuration (Build:8.1.0-00064)
I am command line illiterate. :confused:

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Mauser
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Re: RAID 10 options

#12

Post by Mauser » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:21 pm

More info. The motherboards BIOS has been updated to the latest version. The motherboard is an "ASUS TUF X470-PLUS GAMING motherboard".
I am command line illiterate. :confused:

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BitJam
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Re: RAID 10 options

#13

Post by BitJam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:45 pm

A quick Google(linux AMD-RAID Array) shows the problem and the solution. In order for Linux to see that hardware RAID controller, you need to install a special driver (kernel module). If you are command line illiterate this might not be easy.

Unless you want to share the RAID device with Windows, I do think software RAID will be the path of least pain. Even 20 years ago, software RAID was recommend over hardware RAID. With hardware RAID you run into proprietary blah blah blah and support can suddenly disappear. That is not a problem with software RAID.

I'm sure there are many clear tutorials on how to setup software RAID. Although there may not be a lot of people here who can help you with that since we are oriented toward the desktop, not servers. In fact, MX was originally designed for little Netbooks.
Will I cry when it's all over?
When I die will I see Heaven?

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Re: RAID 10 options

#14

Post by Mauser » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:57 pm

BitJam wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:45 pm
A quick Google(linux AMD-RAID Array) shows the problem and the solution. In order for Linux to see that hardware RAID controller, you need to install a special driver (kernel module). If you are command line illiterate this might not be easy.

Unless you want to share the RAID device with Windows, I do think software RAID will be the path of least pain. Even 20 years ago, software RAID was recommend over hardware RAID. With hardware RAID you run into proprietary blah blah blah and support can suddenly disappear. That is not a problem with software RAID.

I'm sure there are many clear tutorials on how to setup software RAID. Although there may not be a lot of people here who can help you with that since we are oriented toward the desktop, not servers. In fact, MX was originally designed for little Netbooks.
There is no way I am putting Spyware and Malware on my computer! I said the same exact thing when one of the sales people that recommended I put Windows 10 on my computer. I am good at hardware but I struggle with software. A hardware RAID is much better than a software RAID because a hardware RAID is better at preventing data corruption and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. I tried all of those command line RAID arrays and none of them were able to do the first command. If there is a command line RAID that actually works I would love to use it. I can always copy and paste.
I am command line illiterate. :confused:

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Re: RAID 10 options

#15

Post by m_pav » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:26 am

Excluding drivers, Linux is perfectly capable of operating with RAID, if it weren't, we wouldn't have the internet as we know it. My understanding of chipset based RAID is that it is not so much hardware RAID, but proprietary software RAID handled through the motherboard, so you most likely have a software activated raid controller chip on your motherboard. A real hardware RAID is a plug-in card which requires no interpretation whatsoever and has no requirement for software or driver support, it just presents the mass storage devices to whatever OS is running.

I've been out of the IT game for some 18 months now, but I seriously doubt it has changed that much. Going back some 18 months or so, in NZ where I live, an entry level motherboard costed $80 and the higher end consumer and gaming boards come in at $300 to $600.

Contrast the prices for a motherboard with "hardware RAID" with the prices of a proper hardware RAID card where an entry level unit came in at approximately $390 and it required an additional license fee to unlock more features while the decent cards started at $700 and soared well beyond 1K.

Translate those prices to hardware costs in your locale and determine the price you paid for your motherboard. Unless you got ripped blind, I am fairly confident that your "hardware" RAID is not a hardware RAID at all, but a software activated on-board RAID controller.

Please humour me for just another moment as I give another analogy. To my way of thinking, these so called onboard hardware RAID enabled motherboards are like chipset graphics, they work, but they SUCK in comparison to a half decent video card, same goes for onboard audio.

I do not mean to be condescending and I apologise if I come across that way. I only want the best for you and your Linux journey, which I think needs to start with some debunking information that is swallowed whole by most Windows users. I think it's best you take time to learn about software RAID in Linux, as has been hinted at by others in this thread.

You need to have the appropriate modules/services installed and running at boot before partitioning tools will see the storage. Some of these modules will extend your boot times as they try to identify and initialise any discovered RAID arrays.
Mike P

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Re: RAID 10 options

#16

Post by gimcrack » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 am

Mauser wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:01 pm
This is a nightmare! :eek: I installed mdadm and there is no documentation at all on how to create a RAID 10 with it. :mad: Looks like I will have to try the other Giberish ways. :mad: All because Linux can't read from a hardware RAID 10. :soapbox:
What's file system are you using?

Btrfs supports RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 10 (RAID 5 and 6 are under development)

https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php ... le_Devices

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Re: RAID 10 options

#17

Post by Mauser » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:38 am

m_pav wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:26 am
Excluding drivers, Linux is perfectly capable of operating with RAID, if it weren't, we wouldn't have the internet as we know it. My understanding of chipset based RAID is that it is not so much hardware RAID, but proprietary software RAID handled through the motherboard, so you most likely have a software activated raid controller chip on your motherboard. A real hardware RAID is a plug-in card which requires no interpretation whatsoever and has no requirement for software or driver support, it just presents the mass storage devices to whatever OS is running.

I've been out of the IT game for some 18 months now, but I seriously doubt it has changed that much. Going back some 18 months or so, in NZ where I live, an entry level motherboard costed $80 and the higher end consumer and gaming boards come in at $300 to $600.

Contrast the prices for a motherboard with "hardware RAID" with the prices of a proper hardware RAID card where an entry level unit came in at approximately $390 and it required an additional license fee to unlock more features while the decent cards started at $700 and soared well beyond 1K.

Translate those prices to hardware costs in your locale and determine the price you paid for your motherboard. Unless you got ripped blind, I am fairly confident that your "hardware" RAID is not a hardware RAID at all, but a software activated on-board RAID controller.

Please humour me for just another moment as I give another analogy. To my way of thinking, these so called onboard hardware RAID enabled motherboards are like chipset graphics, they work, but they SUCK in comparison to a half decent video card, same goes for onboard audio.

I do not mean to be condescending and I apologise if I come across that way. I only want the best for you and your Linux journey, which I think needs to start with some debunking information that is swallowed whole by most Windows users. I think it's best you take time to learn about software RAID in Linux, as has been hinted at by others in this thread.

You need to have the appropriate modules/services installed and running at boot before partitioning tools will see the storage. Some of these modules will extend your boot times as they try to identify and initialise any discovered RAID arrays.
Those Linux servers must be using a hardware RAID. Motherboard RAID arrays are hardware RAID and not software. I know this for a fact because the previous computer had a RAID on the motherboard that I could set up in the BIOS. It was also an ASUS motherboard. But you are onto something. This RAID array setup is much different since not all the RAID functions are in the BIOS like my previous build and the final setup of creating the RAID array is done after the BIOS which it's probably like what you said is one of those chips set software RAID array which SUCKS! :mad: It's looking like either I return this motherboard and drive 160 miles round trip with tolls and get another motherboard from a different manufacture and probably ended up with the same problem because the idiot hardware manufactures changed from hardware RAID to chips set software RAID. I don't really have the money to do that and it looks like the best way is to look for a RAID card that actually says for LINUX. I also didn't buy an entry motherboard because I want to be able to upgrade in the future. The motherboard cost me $135 + tax. I don't know where you go shopping but I can get hardware RAID array cards for at least 10 times less than you. As for software RAID in Linux is a farce until someone can tell me one that actually works. Those RAID models you refer to are installed on each HDD which I can see if I disable the RAID in the BIOS and boot. Linux can't see the RAID drive when RAID is enabled.
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Re: RAID 10 options

#18

Post by Mauser » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:44 am

gimcrack wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 am
Mauser wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:01 pm
This is a nightmare! :eek: I installed mdadm and there is no documentation at all on how to create a RAID 10 with it. :mad: Looks like I will have to try the other Giberish ways. :mad: All because Linux can't read from a hardware RAID 10. :soapbox:
What's file system are you using?

Btrfs supports RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 10 (RAID 5 and 6 are under development)

https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php ... le_Devices
I wasn't using any file system since they are new HDDs but I tried disabling RAID and formatting the drives to ext4. Once I enable RAID Linux can't see it. Looks like in that link it will work if and only if it can see the drive which in my case it doesn't. Thanks for trying.
I am command line illiterate. :confused:

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Re: RAID 10 options

#19

Post by Mauser » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:26 am

It's a good thing I still have my HP desktop as a spare computer because it's looking like I may need to go back to using it until I get this RAID issue resolved. In the mean time it's looking like I should go with a PCIe RAID 10 card. If anyone sees any 4 internal port hardware RAID 10 SATA III 6.0gbs for Linux please post here. I will be searching for one also. Let's see what we find. Thanks to all.
I am command line illiterate. :confused:

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Re: RAID 10 options

#20

Post by gimcrack » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:38 am

Mauser wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:44 am
gimcrack wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 am
Mauser wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:01 pm
This is a nightmare! :eek: I installed mdadm and there is no documentation at all on how to create a RAID 10 with it. :mad: Looks like I will have to try the other Giberish ways. :mad: All because Linux can't read from a hardware RAID 10. :soapbox:
What's file system are you using?

Btrfs supports RAID 0, RAID 1 and RAID 10 (RAID 5 and 6 are under development)

https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php ... le_Devices
I wasn't using any file system since they are new HDDs but I tried disabling RAID and formatting the drives to ext4. Once I enable RAID Linux can't see it. Looks like in that link it will work if and only if it can see the drive which in my case it doesn't. Thanks for trying.
Requirements: minimum of 3 storage devices

Creating a Complex RAID 10 Array https://www.digitalocean.com/community/ ... n-debian-9

This links looks like a very good one to feed off of. If you have to clear your head. I always go outside and walk through the woods. When I walk back in to work again, it's like idea's that I haven't try out yet just falls in place. It can be done, as I'm reading some success stories.

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