Translated user manuals, how to encourage the discovery and use?

[Spartak77]

Report here a topic started on the Italian forum:

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Old Giza wrote

Assuming I understand the installation process (a big if), is there a way that if the user, on booting the live media, presses F2 to conduct the session in one of the languages for which we have a translated user manual, then that manual is made available (in the live session, and on install) instead of the default English? This would put the wonderful efforts of our translators up front. Sometimes people don't know enough, or aren't motivated enough, to go through the few clicks necessary to get something that would be really useful to them. It has to be put right in front of them. (The MXPI is another instance that has been discussed elsewhere.)
I guess you could object maybe some users would want the English manual anyway because they would feel more comfortable doing the install with it because they are used to the English tehnical terms. It could be made available too, if necessary.

It would be another 1/2 meg or so per language for the html version I think. Would there be room for that?

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Gordon Cooper wrote:

Thanks O.G., that is something to think about. One of the issues that could cause problems is the images/screen shots. These total about 8 MB, thus making a manual
in HTML close to 9 MB. Tied to the same thing is that some of the screen shots are in English, yes they could be translated but this could perhaps mean that MX itself
should also be translated for use on a computer working in that language. Or is this muddled thinking by me?
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Spartak wrote:

I think it would be very well valued for non-English userse if the translated manual could be seen immediately through MX Welcome. It is true that with a couple of clicks you can download the manual from online site, but having it available with MX Welcome would have a psychological effect of feeling at home.
The images in the English language are not a problem for me. I have limited myself to change only those of the installation process because it is one of the most difficult things for a beginner.
The other pictures are understandable even if you leave them in English because the language difference of the items/technical terms is not so great, and also looking the position in the picture of the items you understand everything very well. This speech is good for the Italian (and I think many other languages) but perhaps for the Russian language (which has a different alphabet) the problem is felt more.
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jerry3904 wrote:

Spartak77 wrote:I think it would be very well valued for non-English userse if the translated manual could be seen immediately through MX Welcome. It is true that with a couple of clicks you can download the manual from online site, but having it available with MX Welcome would have a psychological effect of feeling at home.
Nice idea--we'll look at that. Thanks for the suggestion.
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bicyclist56 wrote:
Spartak77 wrote:This speech is good for the Italian (and I think many other languages) but perhaps for the Russian language (which has a different alphabet) the problem is felt more.

I believe that the person who decided to use Linux, he already understands basic computer terms in English. And he will always be able to understand them better, using the text of the Guide in their native language. So I do not think mandatory replacement pictures. And what about the psychological comfort when calling the native language Guide of through MX Welcome - I totally agree.
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jerry3904 wrote:
perhaps we could just have some part available, such as Sections 1-3. Then we might have fewer space problems.
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Gordon Cooper wrote:
Will assemble some shortened translations and check sizes.
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Spartak wrote:
I'm not sure that a shortened translation is a good idea.
If it is a form with a reduced size because the images are lighter then ok, very good, but if in a localized MX Welcome is only presented section 1 and 3 of a translated manual, I don't seem a good idea.
If there are ISO size problems, there may be one more chance:
OK, the translated manual is not available in live mode and after installation, but it would be a good thing that using MX Installer-Package, between the localization packages in the own language, there was a package to locate the manual. After installing the manual package then this could be visible through MX Welcome. It is not such a good solution how to find the manual in MX Welcome already in live mode, but it's better than nothing.
A further possibility is that in the original English version manual, in the header, right below the number version, there was a link with a indication to the manuals into the available translated languages.

I'd like to know what bicyclist thinks about this problem
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Gordon Cooper Wrote:
When the translation project started, the aim was to get sections 1-3 done first, because these would be most useful to an MX beginner. For myself, that aim is still valid. Some parts of section 4, about the basics, should also be available, but IHMO, games, what is under the hood, and advanced use are things that happen after the system is running, by which time a user should know how to access the Wiki, the Manual and other sources of Help. Therefore, easy access to the early parts of the Manual do have value.
We have already reduced the image file sizes to limit overall manual size. Have looked at shortening the Italian Manuale to just sections 1-3. Open Doc file = 7.5 MB and a PDF = 9.0. Not really a great reduction. Overall, the inclusion of links could be better than including all languages in the installation package.
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bicyclist56 wrote:
Spartak77 wrote: If there are ISO size problems

ISO size problems, I believe, may already be outdated at this time. I use only USB flash drives, and in my 5 home computers do not even have to drive ISO disc. For fans of the ISO disc I see no difficulties using the DVD.
The desire to be kept within the size of the ISO - is the only conservatism :)

[Spartak77]

bycyclist56 wrote:

ISO size problems, I believe, may already be outdated at this time.

I also cannot understand if there are really problems of the size of the distro, because the ISO size with which come out new versions of MX currently exceed 1 GB, so they can not be burned to a CD (with the 700MB limit) but for installation it is to be used or a DVD (3.7 GB limit) or a USB-pen, so why should be there size limits?
Anyway I don't care to do a religious war for the manual, if you prefer to show only section 1-3, it is ok for me (though I do not understand why), I only wish that to the new user is made clear and evident that there are other chapters translated of the manual.

[Jerry3904]

There is no war: the Community is simply discussing various proposals and solutions.

[Shay2]

Some folks still use the old cd-rom and refuse to update.But usually the machine specs are such that AntiX is the choice for it.
But with MX, the smaller size does tend to draw folks who have bandwidth limitations.

[Spartak77]

Shay2 wrote:

But with MX, the smaller size does tend to draw folks who have bandwidth limitations.

It may be that those who have bandwidth problems do not want to download an ISO too heavy.
I believe that maintaining a slight ISO is a good thing for the installation time, perhaps the responsiveness of Live etc.
But it must be considered that currently the MX has an ISO with a size of about 1.1 GB.
Wanting to be optimistic for the next 2-3 years unlikely we could to have the translation of the manual in more than 4-5 languages.
So accounting that a manual translated into each language has a size of about 10 MB, the translations would lead to grow up the ISO of 50 MB, so ISO would rise from 1.1 to 1.15 GB ... I don't think a significant change ..
Another observation is that the ISO of the major distros have generally a size more wide than MX. Check Mint, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, Manjaro, Zorin, Fedora, CentOS ... generally have a size from 1.5 GB to up ...
so it is surely important to maintain a slim ISO but I would not scare me passing from 1.1 to 1.15 GB ...

[Spartak77]

Shay2 wrote:

But with MX, the smaller size does tend to draw folks who have bandwidth limitations.

It may be that those who have bandwidth problems do not want to download an ISO too heavy.
I believe that maintaining a slight ISO is a good thing for the installation time, perhaps the responsiveness of Live etc.
But it must be considered that currently the MX has an ISO with a size of about 1.1 GB.
Wanting to be optimistic for the next 2-3 years unlikely we could to have the translation of the manual in more than 4-5 languages.
So accounting that a manual translated into each language has a size of about 10 MB, the translations would lead to grow up the ISO of 50 MB, so ISO would rise from 1.1 to 1.15 GB ... I don't think a significant change ..
Another observation is that the ISO of the major distros have generally a size more wide than MX. Check Mint, Ubuntu, OpenSuse, Manjaro, Zorin, Fedora, CentOS ... generally have a size from 1.5 GB to up ...
so it is surely important to maintain a slim ISO but I would not scare me passing from 1.1 to 1.15 GB ...

[fu-sen]

I renewed the MX site for Japanese users according to MX-16 disclosure.
The installation page that the user first refers to starts with the image:



I do not translate the official manual because it is different from this procedure.
Since MX Linux has become popular in Japan, I am considering build Japanese Respin ISO...

By the way, the size of ISO does not matter in Japan. Many older PCs own a DVD drive.