MX Distro for "not new" users

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Redacted
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#51 Post by Redacted »

Mauser wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:45 am Point and click is the modern way.
Strongly disagree.
Point and click is merely one way. Much more popular, yes. But still only one way.

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Mauser
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#52 Post by Mauser »

I try to help. Those engineering disasters were in the automotive industry. In my life time I only met 3 competent engineers. The one from Ford which is name is Bernie Golick who was the special technical engineer for the North East. He said it best, that "engineers are idiots" excluding him of course. I concur with his statement on the most part because ever engineer I have met was an idiot with the except of 3. The 3 who were good was one automotive, once construction, and one mechanical engineer. They are too ignorant to know or accept advice on how to correct their failure. Only competent engineers listen which they are a rarity.
I am command line illiterate. :confused: I copy & paste to the terminal. Liars, Wiseguys, Trolls, and those without manners will be added to my ignore list. :mad:

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Mauser
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#53 Post by Mauser »

Redacted wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:54 pm
Mauser wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:45 am Point and click is the modern way.
Strongly disagree.
Point and click is merely one way. Much more popular, yes. But still only one way.
I strongly disagree! The command line interface reminds me of 1982 when my parents purchased a computer. Those 8-bit computers were a not user friendly. The only thing it would do is return a syntax error no matter what I typed, with the exception of once when I typed a curse word which I got a different response. As you can see I am not new to the command line. I couldn't understand it back in 1982 and I still don't understand it in 2019. I am one of those copy and paste command line users.
I am command line illiterate. :confused: I copy & paste to the terminal. Liars, Wiseguys, Trolls, and those without manners will be added to my ignore list. :mad:

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Auro Kumar Sahoo
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#54 Post by Auro Kumar Sahoo »

Here on the topic of point, click and go I will go with Mauser.
To justify let me go with an example. Windows has a command line and its as capable as Linux what I assume as I have never use that but seen more advance user using it.
For going to system setting I use GUI but the IT people use run command. But windows is successful not for these IT people but its usability to a layman.
I am not oppose to CLI but its for advance users but let Linux prove that simple for a layman and while suggesting a answer to a computer illiterate I think he should not be made afraid by using complex lines and asking them to put in a command line, rather he should be comfortable by providing solutions in a simple GUI.

Why should i ask my little daughter to open command line and type vlc to open it, rather I should ask her to open start menu and type vlc in search box or go to multimedia tab and simply find it.

Both ways work but what i see in Linux groups, people feel proud providing a solution through command line is prestigious...
Obviously there are some place where one should use that, but not for every place.

Don’t make people afraid and run away.
Make them comfortable and slowly they will come to your level or even they will run their OS as layman for ever. But its not an insult that i cant use command line as i have never use that in windows too. But Yes I Can edit an image better than typing things in command line.

The real technology is that which is for layman, Once celluloid and films are for a group who know how it behave and how to retrieve image from it, But Photography got susses once it introduced to a layman and now everyone can shoot and make a print and for that he don’t need to read or take a class of Photography. But that person is not a professional photographer and he knows that well. It means there are some people who are expert in that and they are required in important points not for every day and others simply use it.
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Richard
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#55 Post by Richard »

I understand the frustration of the command line from my first days with a Commodore64.
Even took it back to the store because I thought I'd broken it. :)
It took a while but I did learn how to get things started, slowly.

Went to a C64 Users Group meeting where I got a pile of utilities to do the simple stuff:
copying files, formatting disks, and more. I do appreciate menus & the GUI.

The reason many people propose solutions via CLI is because it is quicker & easier to type out.
Giving instructions for the GUI usually requires drilling down the menu a few times to write out the sequences.
Probably a soft RAM memory problem. :) But I try.
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asqwerth
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#56 Post by asqwerth »

Richard wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:13 am...

The reason many people propose solutions via CLI is because it is quicker & easier to type out. ...
Also, doing certain things via CLI may bring up much more information in the error messages, which helps with problem solving.

Of course, you have to trust the person providing the terminal commands to you, because a nasty command might hose your system. ;)
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seaken64
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#57 Post by seaken64 »

Well, all I can say is that I find it a whole lot easier to browse around the file system in the console and with the keyboard than I do with a graphical window and mouse. It's not to make anyone feel bad if we who appreciated the command line suggest it's use. Sometimes it's just a better way to go. And it can be difficult to talk someone through a bunch of menus, clicks and windows to get them where they need to be. But they can get there by typing in a path or command very easily with no ambiguity. That makes for a much better result when teaching someone how to fix their machine or make updates to their software.

And remember, someone has to build all that wizardry! A GUI is programmed and outlined by someone else so you can take advantage of it. But the command line is always available. If you're waiting for a nice GUI before you can act there are going to be some things you never get done. And I hope you're at least buying the creator a beer.

Funny thing about GUI's. Several years ago a nearby town asked me to help with their computer. I said "sure, I'll take a look". It was a Mac Classic. I was a CP/M and DOS user. I was lost! I couldn't find anything! And I was in the Finder! Just goes to show you, a GUI isn't always the easiest or best way to do what needs to be done. And neither is the command line. They are both good and bad depending on what needs to be done.

Ever use a CAD program? You'd think a GUI is best for that. But a good CAD operator will probably disagree. Once you learn the keyboard commands there are going to be some operations that are just better done at the keyboard. Faster and easier than a mouse or trackpad.

But I do agree that point and click, our touch and tap, are the modern way. But that doesn't mean the command line is no good. Go ahead try it once in awhile. We can be open minded about point and click GUI and touch screens, and we can also be open minded about the console and command lines.

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seaken64
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#58 Post by seaken64 »

Richard wrote: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:13 am I understand the frustration of the command line from my first days with a Commodore64.
Even took it back to the store because I thought I'd broken it. :)
It took a while but I did learn how to get things started, slowly.

Went to a C64 Users Group meeting where I got a pile of utilities to do the simple stuff:
copying files, formatting disks, and more. I do appreciate menus & the GUI.

The reason many people propose solutions via CLI is because it is quicker & easier to type out.
Giving instructions for the GUI usually requires drilling down the menu a few times to write out the sequences.
Probably a soft RAM memory problem. :) But I try.
I wish our Commodore PET had a GUI when I was learning how to program sprites on the screen! But alas, all I had was chiklet keyboard and a monochrome screen. The guys in the IBM lab were jealous! They had punch cards and teletype terminals. Ha!

Seaken64
MX21-64 XFCE & W11 on Lenovo 330S LT. MX21-KDE & MX21-XFCE on Live USB.
MX18-64 & W7, Fedora on HP Core2 DT
MX21-32 XFCE w/ MX-Fluxbox on P4HT DT w/ antiX21, SUSE Tumbleweed, Q4OS, WXP
antiX21 on Compaq PIII 1 Ghz DT, w/ Debian, MX18FB, W2K

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manyroads
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#59 Post by manyroads »

I have to say I find this discussion somewhat humorous. :lipsrsealed: "How many angels can actually stand on the head of a pin?" :p

User preference is precisely user preference. A preference is a choice. Certainly command line has been around longer than GUI. But GUI is neither modern nor current nor is the point & click version of GUI even used by a majority of computer users. Ever see an iPhone or iPad (tablet)... automobile GPS... automotive active safety system... Kindle... Alexa... There are almost certainly hundreds of computer interface options available, to limit oneself to a single mode is to confine oneself to a restricted mode of operation. Having said that, it is certainly yours to choose that restriction. Linux makes it quite easy in some areas, as well. But to even imply that there are "two" options (and that it is either or) is to ignore the largest computing segments in use today.

I might add the observation that every one of the computer UI options is backed up by CLI. Oh and as an engineer, I'd note there is good reason for that. :bagoverhead:
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kc1di
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Re: MX Distro for "not new" users

#60 Post by kc1di »

I Think that the real thing is that with Linux and MX is that we have many choices and some newbies just are not use to that being they come from an OS culture that only offers one way. It can be overwhelming to them at first. But once understood they see the potential and will learn. There will always be those who do not want to learn or grow , but just want to point and click and have an OS that just works for them without any real effort on their part and that is the MS / OSX crowd. They are mostly better off staying with that. The CLI is a very powerful tool and in many ways outshines the Desktop. But you can't convince everyone that it is easy to use. JMHO :)

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