DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

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Jerry3904
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DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#1 Post by Jerry3904 »

This by Jesse Smith today, thoughtful as always:
MX Linux
MX Linux is the desktop distribution I have been using the most lately. It has a nice, reliable base provided by Debian Stable. The distribution does a good job of finding a sweet spot between having useful features and offering good performance. The MX distribution is very forgiving when run on older hardware, but still manages to look nice and ship with lots of convenient tools.

For the most part, MX Linux can be described as pleasantly boring and I like that it rarely surprises me and, to my memory, has never crashed or become unusable due to a software update. I'm not sure I'd recommend MX to a complete Linux newcomer, some of its tools are geared more toward technical users, but I think it's excellent for people with a little Linux experience who want a system that they can install and forget about for several years.

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One point I think worth noting is that MX Linux will sometimes backport desktop applications. Some software, such as LibreOffice, gets updated to new major versions. I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, it provides users with the latest stable versions of desktop software without impacting the core operating system. On the other hand, people accustomed to a more conservative approach may not want to see new versions of tools and applications get introduced to an otherwise fixed release.

For me, I like running MX as it perhaps best suits my desire for new applications and a fixed core OS, along with my want to for a lightweight system with a lot of conveniences.
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Gordon Cooper
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#2 Post by Gordon Cooper »

Jesse Smith writes a lot of common sense. I agree with his reservations of backporting and choosing Libre Office as an example. Some updates of
LO have made changes that users were not expecting, these have generated much discussion in the LO users group.
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manyroads
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#3 Post by manyroads »

Personally I like using an appimage version of LibreOffice. It does not have any of the typical backporting issues; the only cost being a bit of disk space. You can also run multiple copies while you determine whether or not you're happy with a new release.
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KBD
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#4 Post by KBD »

LibreOffice is one app I do like newer versions of as it is continually being improved. Some newer versions of apps bring regressions, but generally not the case for LO.

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asqwerth
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#5 Post by asqwerth »

@dreamer today also posted something similar in another thread.

I think that as MX becomes more popular, our user base - ie, the community - is going to get more disparate and we will need to chart our way more carefully between these 2 extremes:

1. on one hand, one of our key strengths is our killer packaging team, who are able to backport/compile packages that you won't find in a more conservative Debian Stable-based distro without resorting to PPA/other repos which might have some package dependency clash with Debian. This will appeal to more adventurous users or those who want/need newer packages but want to avoid rolling distros;

2. on the other hand, many of the old faithful users from Mepis times (and some newer users as well) want something really tried and tested, with no surprises. That's why they have stuck with Mepis/MX all these years. A major version-update of familiar applications could bring different interface layouts or different file formats which might cause upheaval in the user's work flow or (worse!) ability to read older data files.

We will have to figure out what level of backporting is ok for most users. Or it might be as simple as some backports never ever being pushed to Stable Repo even if it works well for all who tried it (because of all the other libraries and packages that by necessity have to be upgraded).


For me, this is one reason why I have both MX and Manjaro as my main distros. Have both a rolling and a fixed release distro that are easy to maintain.

For trouble-free updates that don't require checking forum announcements, I use MX and I have full access to a stable base, some newer backported stuff, plus a few flatpaks and appimages that I use. I continue to find my MX15/16 installs fresh enough for normal work because of this (Libreoffice series 6 = appimage; lollypop=flatpak).

Manjaro - if I really need the latest version of something, or some packages that just can't be backported to MX, Manjaro works nicely for me. I just have to be more vigilant in updating it.

PS. In case anyone's wondering, I've never had any of the problems or upheavals faced by others during any update of MX, not even the large update with new GIMP prior to MX18's release, not Libreoffice or FF updates, nor font issues. I also much prefer LO to be updated.

But I recognise that it did happen with some users, and it's something that needs to be considered.
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manyroads
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#6 Post by manyroads »

@asqwerth I agree with what I see as your root principle... use what fits your needs and comfort level/ risk tolerance. I also concur that both MX & manjaro are outstanding distros (before coming here, I used manjaro every day since version 0.85). Today I use MX with appimages. Like Flatpaks, snaps, etc. appimages are not a panacea. They each require vigilance from, at least, security and 'currency' perspectives; and, they require some additional disk space.

The MX 'killer packagers & devs' do an unbelievably excellent job of keeping MX stable, trustworthy and as current as possible. In my 40+ years of software, I have not seen a better crew. :number1: Were it not for their efforts and MX's achievements, I could not, personally, live with another debian-based distro ( I have tried almost every debian, devuan, *buntu 'out there'). The delicate balance that MXLinux has achieved is outstanding. I would be greatly saddened were MXLinux to trade away its best characteristics, for any reason.

But, that's just one old guy's opinion. :bagoverhead:
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#7 Post by Jerry3904 »

My thinking ATM is that we have to be more careful about bringing big packages out of MX Test: if they have not been widely tested and reported, they stay in. The corollary to such a procedure would have a much more active promotion/marketing of MX Test for two purposes: to get the testing we need, and to let people who want a very recent package know that it exists. I remember Jesse's review of MX-17 in which he pointed out how old some of the packages were, apparently unaware of MX Test's existence.

As I said in an earlier thread, I consider this a crucial topic for the whole concept of MX Linux.
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manyroads
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#8 Post by manyroads »

Further @Jerry3904, I think were MX to package such 'risky' apps as appimages they could be run & preserved indefinitely (as long as the appimage formats remain compatible going forward). In fact, appimages could be 'even' better for keeping old apps alive/around/ operational on new distro releases than providing for use of new ones. I'm willing to run a test on those assertions (I sent a note around on this topic earlier)...but I don't want to embark on 'unsanctioned' work.
Pax vobiscum,
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i3wm, bspwm, hlwm, dwm, spectrwm ~ Linux #449130
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#9 Post by richb »

Jerry3904 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:02 am My thinking ATM is that we have to be more careful about bringing big packages out of MX Test: if they have not been widely tested and reported, they stay in. The corollary to such a procedure would have a much more active promotion/marketing of MX Test for two purposes: to get the testing we need, and to let people who want a very recent package know that it exists. I remember Jesse's review of MX-17 in which he pointed out how old some of the packages were, apparently unaware of MX Test's existence.

As I said in an earlier thread, I consider this a crucial topic for the whole concept of MX Linux.
Totally agree as one who often uses the MX Test repo, I have not been bitten but the potential exists with large packages and libraries coming in.
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Re: DW: Musing on distros after prolonged use

#10 Post by KBD »

If I have to choose, I want stability over convenience. A better path might be in the future to have a release that follows a conservative 'Enterprise" list of sources/updates, and then the regular "End User" sources with the most updated apps. I'm running 2 instances of MX that I seriously don't want broken. One is my server, and the other is a computer with backups of some of my most important files. Of course I do multiple backups, but as said, I value stability most.

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