MX-18 Feedback

[dolphin_oracle]

Yes

[asqwerth]

Speaking of package managers... I had a fun time trying to install Spyder3. The three first times I looked for it, the package manager(s) found it but refused to install due to some issue where it thought the package was empty, basically. Same with Youtube-dl. Then suddenly it worked. Slow servers? Or something else?
[*]Speaking of more package management: When I was busy uninstalling and installing stuff to my liking, I saw 5 packages constantly sitting on the "held back" list. Then suddenly the update notified popped up and told me those five were ready to be updated? Is this normal behavior in Debian? Just wondering.

Which package manager did you use?

If synaptic, did you reload package lists first? Unlike pacman, you have to do this in Debian.

5 packages being held back: are you trying to install via terminal, using apt upgrade command rather than apt full-upgrade? Or did you change settings in synaptic or mxpi to not use full-upgrade option?

[beardedgeek72]

Also, what are the 4 package managers?

Only 2 graphical ones, right?

Synaptic is the venerable old gui package manager of Debian based distros. MX packageinstaller (mxpi) is mx's and does more than synaptic, including its Popular apps functionality and the ability to manage Flatpaks in a graphical interface. Unlike KDE's Discover and Gnome's Software, Xfce does not have a graphical package manager nor one that handles Flatpaks.

Mxpi doesn't just do what synaptic does.

Only quoting this bit, but replying to both posts.

What I can find are Synaptic, of course, but then two graphical that looks identical when opened but have different icons and different names: The MX one, and one with a red Debian logo on it and called something else. Installed as a separate packagebut looks absolutely identical as the MX one when opened.
And then the text based one, yes. Four in total.

As for bloated: I don't mind wallpapers, I am a wallpaperoholic myself.
"Apps i don't need = Bloatware"? Mayyybe to a point; I mean I always mutter under my breath when I have to uninstall Office Online, Skype and whatnot in Manjaro. But there were a few things which I guess is about covering all your bases for an user? Like a Dialup. I haven't used a dial up modem since 2003, I think. But I guess that somewhere in the world you still have to. What else were there... Maybe it was more an issue of covering all you bases between techie, office person and home user and have preinstalled software for all of them.

Manjaro Stable is as Stable as it can get, I love it. But I am at the point where after spending months playing around I got stuck in a rut, so basically I needed a fix on the wild side; hence switching Manjaro to Unstable and going to install SIduction tomorrow. (ANd of course at first boot after updates Manjaro XFCE couldn't log in using the graphical interface. Systemd had frakked up. Oh well, be careful what you wish for )

Anyway I DO find a lot of things I like with this, I just have to get used to using the command prompts for Debian again; that's part of why I do this, to remember old knowledge.

Edit:
I tried Synaptic first. And then the MX one. It was Synaptic that when klicking the check button listed Firefox and four other packages as being held back; I did not try to force the issue, I just noticed that when I did the auto detected updates they suddenly were eligible to be upgraded.

[Gerson]

Hello @Jerry3904
I closed session and re-entered and did not solve, I went back to delete the folder (~ /.local/share/keyrings) and restart, I asked again for the key, I left the blanks and continued. So far he has not asked me for keys again.

[manyroads]

@beardedgeek72 and @asqwerth as a user of manjaro since version 0.81 (I think it was) I have decided to seriously move to the use of MX & Debian. For me, there are things here that go 'far' beyond bloatware and software acquisition tools. I'll quickly offer my personal perspective:

• Debian like arch is easy enough to script. I remove lots of software I don't care for or use, and replace it with software I do use and like. The scripts take about 1 minute to run and are only required at install. No big deal, to me.

• the MX Tools, in my experience and opinion, there is nothing to match them. There are a few distros that make similar attempts but, for me, they fall short.

• stability and currency of the MX environment; I managed 5 users' machine environments with a current total of 7 machines, my users are ages nearly 90 down to 5 1/2. The way the team here patches, fixes, tests, and rolls out product is amazing. My users are much happier then they were with manjaro stable, Linuxmint, ubuntu .... obviously grandson (5 1/2) did not test all of those; he's only seen 1 change.

• MX is not bleeding edge, and for me the quintessential really "old geek", that is sad philosophically speaking. But speaking practically, MX is rugged, well-built, reliable, and backed by an amazing community. Plus I have to say the auto-pilot update/ upgrade feature is grand.

• oh and no reliance on systemd here... I love that.

In the end it is all about trade-offs. There is no perfect world. But for me, I'm here for what I hope is a long time. Sorry folks.... :lipsrsealed:

[Adrian]

Going a bit meta, but I see this thread have been going for 13 pages and we hit against the law of diminishing returns (hard to follow different discussion). I wonder if if a couple of days we shouldn't lock the thread and direct people to submit bug reports for things that don't work, and submit suggestions for improvements either as a "feature request" in the Bugzilla or as a separate thread for each such request. Just an idea... (on the other hand if people are having fun with this we should let it continue)

[dphn]

Everyone who wants a 'perfect world' must build own systems. Choose a base. Maybe Arch or a Debian net-install without a DE and start.

Another way is for example OpenSUSE. The installer give users the choice to select the software packages. These images are install media only, no live system. Live Systems are full featured systems by the creators and the install process copies the whole system to HDD/SSD.

The Ubuntu installer ubiquity is able to remove packages after the process. (filesystem.manifest-remove). But the packages here where select by the developers. Here you can simply edit this file. It's outside the squashfs, you only must extract the iso and rebuild after editing with xorriso or genisoimage.

[richb]

Going a bit meta, but I see this thread have been going for 13 pages and we hit against the law of diminishing returns (hard to follow different discussion). I wonder if if a couple of days we shouldn't lock the thread and direct people to submit bug reports for things that don't work, and submit suggestions for improvements either as a "feature request" in the Bugzilla or as a separate thread for each such request. Just an idea... (on the other hand if people are having fun with this we should let it continue)

I agree. While interesting and feedback, discussing the philosophy of MX, I think, was not what was intended by this thread. Nothing wrong with that but best done in a separate thread.

[Jerry3904]

Going a bit meta, but I see this thread have been going for 13 pages and we hit against the law of diminishing returns (hard to follow different discussion). I wonder if if a couple of days we shouldn't lock the thread and direct people to submit bug reports for things that don't work, and submit suggestions for improvements either as a "feature request" in the Bugzilla or as a separate thread for each such request. Just an idea... (on the other hand if people are having fun with this we should let it continue)

I think that's the right direction to go, though I would say we need to leave this thread open for a while still. Now that our Bugzilla is up and running, we do want to direct people to it.

[Gordon Cooper]

My intention when starting this thread was it would be a place for reporting the installation of MX18 and any installation problems. Spread into other related topics was not intended but is probably inevitable. My own experience with Bugzilla is that some users may prefer to report via this forum as it is easier.