Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

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ChrisUK
Qualified MX Guide
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Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#1 Post by ChrisUK »

I'm not sure about this, as I've only three MX Linux installs on one AMD-based machine and two Intel to test against...

I've been getting random lockups for the past few months - total freezes, usually when idle, holding the power button to shutdown being the only option (All key combinations, including REISUB have no effect). Logs aren't helpful, as the last log entries are different and without sign of failure/warnings/errors. I'm forced to boot into another install and e2fsck to fix the resulting errors (mainly orphans after recovering journal).

I tried a reinstall using the latest (July and also August) MX monthly snapshots, but the problem persists. It might be days before a lockup, or it might be hours - I might have one after the other within minutes. I've not noticed the fans going mad, which I'd expect if the CPU was at 100%, which it wasn't. I've not seen the HDD light stuck on either. It's just a totally quiet and unresponsive Laptop.

One of the installs was from the original MX 17, the others are 17.1 onwards. I used the AMD Laptop for a few days (it's a clone of the original installs), and no lockups. So there's a few possible causes I can think of:
  • Failing hardware - RAM/CPU/HDD (HDD is unlikely, as I swapped it to test - Laptop is never under load when it happens, which I'd guess means RAM/CPU is less likely?)
  • Mitigation/patches in latest (last few) Intel microcode updates
  • Mitigation/patches in Kernels
  • Very bad luck
So, before I use another OS for a few weeks to rule out anything Antix/MX/Debian, I thought I'd ask if any here have had similar problems?

Thanks

Code: Select all

System:    Host: xxx Kernel: 4.9.0-8-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 6.3.0 
           Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 tk: Gtk 2.24.31 Distro: MX-17.1_x64 Horizon March 14, 2018 
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: SAMSUNG product: RV411/RV511/E3511/S3511/RV711 v: N/A 
           serial: <filter> 
           Mobo: SAMSUNG model: RV411/RV511/E3511/S3511/RV711 serial: <filter> BIOS: Phoenix 
           v: 03PA.M001.20110312.XW date: 03/12/2011 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT1 charge: 7.6 Wh condition: 7.6/47.5 Wh (16%) model: SAMSUNG Electronics 
           status: Full 
CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i3 M 380 bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Nehalem 
           rev: 5 L2 cache: 3072 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 20215 
           Speed: 933 MHz min/max: 933/2533 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 933 2: 1466 3: 933 4: 933 
Graphics:  Card-1: NVIDIA GT218M [GeForce 315M] driver: nouveau v: kernel bus ID: 02:00.0 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: nouveau unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nv,vesa 
           resolution: 1366x768~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Gallium 0.4 on NVA8 v: 3.3 Mesa 13.0.6 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel 
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 
           Card-2: NVIDIA High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 02:00.1 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.9.0-8-amd64 
Network:   Card-1: Broadcom Limited BCM4313 802.11bgn Wireless Network Adapter 
           driver: bcma-pci-bridge v: N/A bus ID: 03:00.0 
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169 
           v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: 4000 bus ID: 05:00.0 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           IF-ID-1: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter> 
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 232.89 GiB used: 119.15 GiB (51.2%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Toshiba model: MK2546GSX size: 232.89 GiB 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 36.28 GiB used: 12.63 GiB (34.8%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 54.0 C mobo: 54.0 C gpu: nouveau temp: 61 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Info:      Processes: 196 Uptime: 2h 49m Memory: 5.70 GiB used: 776.5 MiB (13.3%) Init: SysVinit 
           runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 6.3.0 Shell: bash v: 4.4.12 inxi: 3.0.10 
Chris

MX 18 MX 19 - Manjaro

spandey
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#2 Post by spandey »

Hope you have a swap partition? If not allocate one.Also, my old PC is much better off with 4.14 kernel from MXrepo. It didn't like 4.9 or 4.17.

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chrispop99
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#3 Post by chrispop99 »

All Intel here on multiple machines, and no issues.

Symptoms fit RAM problems, so the easiest first step would be to run several passes of MEMtest.

Chris
MX Facebook Group Administrator.
Home-built desktop - Core i5 9400, 970 EVO Plus, 8GB
DELL XPS 15
Lots of test machines

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ChrisUK
Qualified MX Guide
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#4 Post by ChrisUK »

Thanks for the replies

I always have a swap file - I did run memtest, but I'll run it again just to be sure
Chris

MX 18 MX 19 - Manjaro

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colin_b
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#5 Post by colin_b »

Are you using a Chromium based browser?

If so, disable hardware acceleration. See this post https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=46115.

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m_pav
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#6 Post by m_pav »

From what I read so far, I'd put the most likely cause for the total freeze lockups in the lap of your graphics hardware before the Intel Chipset. Have a real good look at what improvements each available kernel has and try the one that appears to have the most beneficial fixes. You could also try moving forwards, or even backwards with the graphics drivers. In your case, because the hardware is of the older variety, updates won't necessarily make things better.

Another thing not ruled out yet is machine brand , bios version and potential looming EOL. I don't have any faith in HP machines, their power regulators and poor cooling are forever causing failures, Toshiba suffer from similar faults too. Every brand has their common weakness and the cheaper the unit, the more likely it will be a junker before too long.

Also, in my experience, once the crashes start happening, they only get worse. The only way to properly ascertain if a fix works or not is a fresh install followed immediately by any fix you want to try. I feel for you because I went through a 18-months period where my Intel 5th Gen laptop was perilously crash happy. Turns out that particular chipset was simply plagued with issues and I got a new 6th gen laptop on warranty.
Mike P

Regd Linux User #472293
(Daily) Lenovo T560, i7-6600U, 16GB, 2.0TB SSD, MX_ahs
(ManCave) AMD FX 6100 CPU, nVidia, 8Gb, 3.25TB mixed, MX_ahs
(Spare)2017 Macbook Air 7,2, 8GB, 256GB SSD, MX_ahs

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ChrisUK
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#7 Post by ChrisUK »

Thanks for the further replies.

Over 8 hours of multiple-pass Memtest86 yesterday - CPU at 100% most of the time and temperatures high as expected, so a good test of both CPU and RAM... No errors - so I'm ruling out CPU and RAM for now. I can do nothing about the GFX card, apart from watch the temperatures (which seem normal)

I decided to swap the HDD, even though symptoms and previous tests seemed to rule it out as the culprit. Restored using Timeshift (it was from a clean install from the August snapshot with restored app/settings etc using Aptik) Up to now, no lockups, which proves nothing yet.

I've got one more set of tests to run to see if it's related to the Kernel version (I'm using 4.15, but I was using 4.9 series when lockups occurred. )
Chris

MX 18 MX 19 - Manjaro

boombaby
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#8 Post by boombaby »


Hello, ChrisUK...

I can confirm I have a problem similar (or same) to that which you describe - random lockups requiring power-off/reboot. While I do not have the skill to check in the manner you describe it does not appear to be heat related. I occasionally get the fan race-condition that you described, but have not yet associated it (directly) to the lockups.

A Small Digression
When using Windows in the past I used to get lockups (similar to now, but on totally different O/S and hardware). It continued to be a problem until I realised the "icon cache" seemed to be (too) small. It appeared to me that when the icon cache was used up it crashed into the program space - with immediate lockup effect. Then I found and used a free program someone had developed which could manage/alter almost every aspect of control within the User space - even normally hidden ones. (I cannot remember the name of the program right now. I just went Net-hunting a bit, but could not quickly find the name either. It was a true wonder manager!) Back to the story. With that program you could alter/expand caches, including the icon-cache. That immediately solved my lock-up problem at the time. [The reason the lockups were occurring (in my opinion) was the O/S was managing over 600,000 files. (On older work systems I was using at the time they were struggling with 12,000 files.)]

So, recently, I have started to look at icon-caching within Linux (and any other caches, I suppose) to see if this is a source of problems here. I guess a question to you, ChrisUK, is 'Are you using a "lot" of files on your system (of any sort)?'. Is that a source of the problem?

Other considerations. My Swap file appears to remain at zero usage. Why? (I use Conky and htop for that.)

Further I agree with you. I have also wondered about the Intel and chip-matching thing. Unlike you, I have a HP Pavilion laptop - although it is still Intel-chip based.

My MX linux system remains fixed to safe repos - although (I admit) I downloaded the Vivaldi browser package, which I think was not in the repo at the time.

I also use the MATE desktop which was added under the xfce-based installation (using Synaptic).

Any discussion is fine.

Regards,
boombaby
-

boombaby
Posts: 59
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#9 Post by boombaby »


Hello again, ChrisUK, et al...

With regard to the icon cache problem and the program I could not remember in the previous post I went looking for details. I found it. Rather than talk about it here I created a new thread.

http://www.mxlinux.org/forum/viewtopic. ... eea85d4e64


boombaby
_

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ChrisUK
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Re: Random lockups - possibly only Intel CPUs

#10 Post by ChrisUK »

Thanks for replying - seeing as my problem doesn't affect identical (cloned) installs on different hardware, I'm 99.9% sure it's a hardware problem... or perhaps Kernel, that I'm still testing
Chris

MX 18 MX 19 - Manjaro

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