Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

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HessenZone
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#21 Post by HessenZone »

Sorry, you're right of course. ;)
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uncle mark
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#22 Post by uncle mark »

anticapitalista wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 amWindow users coming to linux need to know that linux is NOT windows. There are some similarities, that's all. That doesn't mean linux is difficult, just different and users should EXPECT it to be different. Those users that 'get this' will stay with linux, those that don't will give up.
Oldie but goodie:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Clearly, software designed around the needs of the first user will not be suitable for the second, and vice versa. So how can any software be called "user-friendly", if we all have different needs?

The simple answer: User-friendly is a misnomer, and one that makes a complex situation seem simple.
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richb
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#23 Post by richb »

uncle mark wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:38 pm
anticapitalista wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:49 amWindow users coming to linux need to know that linux is NOT windows. There are some similarities, that's all. That doesn't mean linux is difficult, just different and users should EXPECT it to be different. Those users that 'get this' will stay with linux, those that don't will give up.
Oldie but goodie:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Clearly, software designed around the needs of the first user will not be suitable for the second, and vice versa. So how can any software be called "user-friendly", if we all have different needs?

The simple answer: User-friendly is a misnomer, and one that makes a complex situation seem simple.
Very good article. Thanks for posting. Should be read by every Windows user coming to Linux.
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HessenZone
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#24 Post by HessenZone »

Well, in this day and age I have to pretty much disagree with that article. As far as I'm concerned, that was written back in the day when people moved to Linux out of mild or blind curiosity, moving to an OS with an iron clad reputation, having expectations of doing everything Windows related while simultanously (potentially) saving a ton of money, and so on. Hence, back in the day from which Linux and most epecially the user desktop experience have massively evolved. I teach people that there is no difference for general and even most professional users anymore ... and I back this up with hands on proof.

I have a dual-boot Windows7 and MX Linux machine for people to play around with. Windows7 gets booted up first. Most people whom I deal with have some computer experience, primarily with WindowsXP, WinVista, and Windows7 ... all of which use a Start Button, a Start Menu, a Start Panel/Taskbar, the ability to have Favorites in the Panel and/or the Start Menu, and a File Manager (Windows Explorer) for exploring the contents of their mounted Media, regardless if mounted externally, on stick, or interrnally.

By default ... XFCE has all of that ... and MX Linux is more like Windows7 (by appearance) than any other distro/desktop out there (IMO). I'm talking specifically about the comfort level about the look & feel of a visual setup that the user experiences after logging in.

I'm not talking about gamers - I refuse to work with them, period - and I'm not talking about people (the vast minority) who must have access to very special Windows Software in order to earn a living.

Most of the people that I deal with want to enjoy all or some of ...
Working with Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, or LibreOffice - Which they can do on both setups that I show them.
Perhaps they love tinkering with the Media Center - So I show them VLC, SMplayer, Handbrake, and OpenShot.
Others like access to various Windows Tools - related to things like Xfburn, Varying calculators, Thunar, Filezilla, etc.
Some people just want their LiveMail or Outlook as well as decent Browsing - such as with Thunderbird, Firefox, Opera, etc.
(BTW: many Windows people know about or use VLC, Gimp, Thunderbird, Firefox, LibreOffice, Filezilla, etc. on Windows already)

Today, I unabashedly tell people that the Linux distributions which I show them, have so much in common with Windows that it's ridiculous. And you know why I do that? I'll tell you why. Because so far, in 5+ years of helping people convert to Linux, never once was someone forced to use the console because with a little research there was always a fix to be found, for the simple issues that arose, which could actually be fixed with a point 'n' click solution.

You know what I perceive to be the biggest stopper for people switching to Linux (and mind you I'm saying this as someone who's almost 60 years old). The biggest stopper or turn-off is directly related to all of those old-time long-time (decades) Linux users who simply never evolved themselves with the times of Point 'n' Click technology. It's like that on every Linux forum that I ever participated on. Most of these old-timers simply refuse to accept the fact that most generic & basic professional computer users, will never have the need to do anything on a console. My wife has been using Linux for 6+ years and never ever uses the console. My brother for 3+ years, and he never uses the console either. When I present a Linux system to someone that's never worked with Linux before, they are simply astonished at the many many similarities (XFCE desktop) between Windows & Linux.
Combine that with a dozen or so simply written single page help files, and "my people" are happy indefinitely with their Linux. :happy:
To me, today, as a general & professional desktop user ... Linux is indeed very much so, (like) Windows!
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Be OK
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#25 Post by Be OK »

For me the biggest problem is understandable manuals/programs,most are OLD and do not work on this version of linux.
That why the mx forum is a great place,help is always there ! chapeau. One other problem is WC programs that fork to work under linux, the programs mostly work but there help and/or forums are mostly WC pfff bad, like lmms the do not set there OS in the subject ,so i do not look there anymore.
Just my 2 cts

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richb
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#26 Post by richb »

I still think it is a valuable article. Yes, the desktop looks and functions essentially the same but when it comes to software installation a Windows user needs to completely forget the Windows model. I experienced this 20 years ago when I adopted Linux and it is still true today.
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xali
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#27 Post by xali »

so, i installed bunsenlabs on a usb stick and i realised that they have a welcome script. that was nice, i think you have to check it if not already. at least something like that would prevent some users to break their system by adding ppa's, since they have a warning about it and i have seen such threads here.

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HessenZone
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#28 Post by HessenZone »

I know this probably sounds ridiculous to some people, but I believe in making everything point 'n' click dummy-proof. For one thing, we live in Germany and I'm the only knowledgable Computer/Linux user that I know of in our area, no kidding (we don't live in a large city). Consequently, there's only one of me to deal with dozens of clients who use my Linux setups. If those weren't dummy proof, I'd probably lose my mind with support issues. But as it stands, and I kid you not, I can't even recall the last time that anyone asked me for any assistance. And even though everyone automatically receives links to this forum in their help files, somehow I have a feeling that nobody has experienced any significant problems yet, which might prompt them to come to this forum. Not bad, eh? ;)
On the other hand though, richb. If you're the one who's doing the installing, then it's only fair that you're the one who may have to deal with borked setups. In my case, I'm the one who's doing all of the installing in advance though, so for me "dummy-proof" works perfectly, providing me and everyone else with piece of mind. The biggest user problem that I encounter, have encountered for a number years, is the lack of willingness by users to read more than a page of information at a time (preferably no reading at all). :frown:
That's why I think a "quick 'n' dirty" here are some basic know-hows quick start from the welcome screen would be so hepful for new users.
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Jerry3904
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#29 Post by Jerry3904 »

The biggest user problem that I encounter, have encountered for a number years, is the lack of willingness by users to read more than a page of information at a time (preferably no reading at all).
There is certainly a whole group like that, only question for us is: do we want to bring everything to that level? The big Linux OSs have huge resources and are already doing that.
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richb
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Re: Ideas for a "Quick Start" document

#30 Post by richb »

It would seem one solution does not fit all. The user you describe is well served by point and click and do not bother me with learning anything about the OS. But there is another user who is not a Linux coder or developer, but does not want to blindly follow point and click without knowing what is behind it. Distro developers decide whether to cater to the one or the other, or a third option, a middle ground. I think MX has, to date anyway, chosen the third option.
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