REQUEST ... Adjustment to Installer for foreign Keyboards [Solved]

[linwinux]

Hi there, all. I've tried numerous linux flavors for older machines and have to say that I'm very very impressed at the performance level of MX Linux 17, 32bit, on an older Acer Travelmate with 1.73 Ghz single core 32bit Processor and only 2 GB of installed Ram (have a 3G swap file installed as well, just in case). This is it, MX Linux just blows me away because I can install my beloved XFCE desktop which has the ability to make everything look pretty darn good, while at the same time providing a performance level that's just unreal, for a machine as old as that Acer laptop. However, not everything is rosey, most especially not the install procedure ....

We live in Germany and my goal is to help as many, especially older (35 to 60) Germans, to begin using a computer (possibly the first computer) with Linux ... MX Linux or Linux Mint XFCE, that is, depending on the hardware features of the machine. During the installation on three different machines, I noticed some minor issues with the MX Linux installer. Minor issues for me, unsurmountable issues for a new computer user with a "foreign" keyboard.

The verbiage in the installer is English, definitely a problem, one that I'd like to help correct as quickly as possible. I speak, read, and write the German language just as fluently as the English language, so if anyone cares to submit pre-configured english language files to me, I'd be happy to make the correctinos for free. If a German language template hasn't been started yet, but another language file exists, I can use that as well. For example, I can use an English/Spanish file to make an English/German file. No Online translator stuff, just the real deal ....

Another problem with the installer is the password option. This is a real problem for anyone with a foreign keyboard, i.e. people in Germany with a German keyboard. When I create a Linux session for someone, I have a special very good yet easy to remember password that I use as a default. This password utilizes an underscore (_) key. Well, when you create such a password with MX Linux during the installation ... the user does not know that their underscore key will be recognized as something else, since it defaults to US English values ... where the underscore key is actually located in a totally different area of the keyboard.
This would not be a problem exclusively for myself, but for anyone who decides to use an underscore during the installation of MX Linux.
It would be very beneficial to anyone from another Country, to be able to select their languiage & keyboard BEFORE the instalallation begins.

This is important because even after I changed my language and layout, the underscore key still did not work.
Why is that? It's because they were selected before the actuall installation did it's thing.
Consequently, even after the installation that incorrect underscore key still persisted. This could potentially be very confusing to some people ...

Great job though. I love MX Linux and the fact that it's so highly yet still quite easily customizeable.

.

[anticapitalista]

You could have chosen F2 at the live boot menu to set up German localisation.
That would have provided an installer written in German as well as a German keyboard layout.

Oh - and welcome to the forum.

[chrispop99]

Hello, welcome to the forum.

As you are intending to help other users become familiar with MX, may I respectfully suggest you have a read of the manual?

You would have found how to set the default keyboard and language prior to installing there in section 2.

Chris

[Eadwine Rose]

As the others have said, this can be sorted if you read the manual, and take a look at all the options that are available to you when you start the livedvd/liveusb.

I suggest ditching what you have and reinstalling, selecting the proper data from the getgo.


Welcome to the forums!

[Jerry3904]

Perhaps more relevant for OP: look at the bottom of the screen when booting Live, and click on the Help if unclear.

[linwinux]

Thanks for all of those comments. I'll have to see how the next install works out. As far as helping others getting to know and work with MX, yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. With that said, I always work on a computer for "noobs" with the thought that the other person knows little to nothing about a computer and would like to see things easily and as (hopefully) logically as they are needed ... without first having to resort to a manual ... because as terrible as it may sound, many if not most people simply can't be bothered to read anymore. That's just the way it is. I find that to be frustrating to no end, but that won't change the current reality, nor will that change the fact that I'm still trying to be helpful anyway.

I downloaded the MX 17 iso, loaded it onto a bootable USB stick, and began the installation after using the startup prompt on the screen to enter either the bios or the boot menu, which would allow me to select booting from the USB device first, i.e. getting the ability to boot into MX Linux.

Suggesting looking around on thew screen for a language menu was/is completely alien to me. When installing Ubuntu or Mint, the language selection pops up directly in front of your face, and as a result your later selected keyboard is already set to the previously chosen language during the installation process. Sorry, but to me that's the logical and sensible way to go about it when trying to have the "masses from all over the world" embrace a Linux OS. The easier that process is, the easier and happer people will be able to deal with it later on. My ultimate goal is not only to help people, but also for them to eventually help themselves ... one day being willing to try an installation on their own ... without having to hunt things down on a screen or looking for a manual or becoming otherwise too easily frustrated, just because of the language selection ... which should, IMO, require neither. Desired OS language with instant automatic (internal?) keyboard selection, should be right in your face where it can't be missed by anyone.
No biggie. I love MX Linux and will be installing it on a couple of old setups by next week.
I'll pay more attention to the setup process then. Promise ...

[linwinux]

Ooops, forgot to mention ... not having the language with subsequent automatic keyboard selection right in your face from the start also causes some other things that aren't very pleasant. As we already know, changing the language keyboard after the installation will not automatically change the prior, now incorrect keys, such as Z, Y, _, and others when comparing the DE to US layouts.

Even worse, the earlier (accidental) English installation doesn't change any web-browser settings later on. My Firefox & Thunderbird still have English in them, even though the German language has been selected. Adding the language pack later apparently doesn't change the initial default setup.

Same applies to some of the other apps, like Keepassx, SMPlayer, etc.

I think that the whole purpse of having the language selection in your face right in the beginning where it can't be missed, is to avoid exactly these types of issues which are nothing to people with lots of computer and/or Linux experience ... but which make a huge difference to anyone who's just getting their feet wet with Linux. There, that's it. Have a great evening, or morning, or day, whatever time-zone you may be in.

[anticapitalista]

The best way for you to help those who want to try and install MX is to tell them to use F2 to set up their localisation.
Especially so as you now know why.

[fehlix]

Hi linwinux.
Just some further thoughts.. The menu you see when you boot up from USB/CD
is not just a simple menu. It is far more intelligent then it appears at the first glance.
All the stuff like language, timezone, keyboard .. and much much more is handled for you from
within this boot menu. This is amazing stuff. And there have been lot's of thoughts
and intelligence gone into that.
And one further amazing feature you'll find within that menu is that
it helps you run a full customized OS with persistence ( to keep/remember changes you made
with the live system).
I must admint some of my remastered ISO’s (USB-sticks) I made fore relatives and friends
do also have a localized boot-menu in my local language with the correct time zone and the right keyboard.
You might learn to create you own remastered USB-stick with help of tools provided by MX-Linux already. And I’m sure you’ll soon will manage to get also you localized USB-installer.
But until you have build that you better press F2+F3 to change language, keayboard and timzone.

As you original request appears sorted please mark this thread as solved.
Happy menu!

[linwinux]

Thank you, fehlix. I agree with most of what you have to say ...

I can not in good conscience mark the thread as solved though. Solved would have meant that MX Linux Developers (here on the forum?) would be receptive to changes and improvements for the overall user experience. It wasn't even open to discussion. The responses were mostly similar too ... "It works as you desire with a little reading so back off" ... and that's not exactly what I would call solving an issue.

Whether the people here like to admit it or not, the "language in your face thing" is indeed an issue. If it wasn't, then how come Debian, Mint, Ubuntu, and many other Debian flavors make the language a fail-safe option right from the getgo? Fail-Safe means that you can't screw it up ... here are all of your language choices ... see them right in front of you ... now pick one already, damn it.

When I found out that MX Linux is an effort of people from Mepis and Antix coming together, my thinking was that here is a group of people who are dedicated to make Linux not only spectacularily awesome for older machines, but also by putting heads together, being receptive to making MX Linux a mind boggling user experience as well ... which of course includes new users and those who are wanting to make that switch from Windows to Linux.

The singular reason why Linux Distros are finally becoming something for the non-technical masses to use, is the initial user experience for anyone with little computer experience, or those who are only used to Windows. So making the experience of switching to or using Linux for the first time, regardless which flavor, should (IMO) be one of the two primary concerns for any developers who would like to see their Distro used & distributed globally by many people. From the answers here, I'm getting the feeling that "we're pretty happy with the way things are" ... and that's a shame. Well, whatever. I realize that I'm just a newbie here in the forum, but that doesn't change the fact that I have 27 years of professional computer experience. My life is about computers & internet, as well as helping others. I love to make life with computers an easier experience for people ... especially in Countries like Germany and other European Countries, where you might be surprised to find out just how many people still have no computer or are still using WindowsXP or Windows7. For example, we live in a small village with about 2500 people. I would be amazed if more than half of the adults here have a computer that's being used on a regular basis, no kidding. And Europe is filled with thousands upon thousands of villages just like this one ... where people need to be able to do things easily from the first time that a screen is powered on. Alright, enough of that, end of the soap-box. Sorry about all the wasted time.
PEACE