REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

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linwinux

REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#1 Post by linwinux »

Since everyone here loves to read so much, here we go ...
Yesterday I installed MX Linux on a third machine, an old HP 6730b from 2008. This time around I went ahead and actually started using the startup menu right away. You know the one, that box on the screen with MX Tools and other functions. As someone "who's never used Linux before" (that's my point of view anyway), I immediately wanted to play and tinker with the setup. I mean, that's what that screen invited a person to do, right? Oh, what's that? MX Tools? Something to tweak or customize with perhaps? I wonder what happens for me when I fiddle around in there? :confused: :happy: :cool:

Alright, now from a regular XFCE user point of view ...

Why not replace the control panel functions at the very top of the start menu (after clicking on MX in the corner), and replacing that with MX Tools instead? There are a number of reasons for this. First, to any new user, and heck let's be honest, even to myself at first, it's a bit confusing LATER ON to find that there are MX Tools and a Control Panel which appear to achieve pretty much the same thing. The first thing that my feeble mind thinks is ... uh, oh, will my changes in the Control Panel have an impact on earlier changes that I already made with MX Tools? Remember, new users won't immediately understand that some of those settings are just the same ol (but overlapping) XFCE settings as in the MX Tools. Also, and this is really important (methinks), I found that I really didn't have a reason for accessing the control panel, once I went through all of the tweaks & adjustments within the MX Tools. Thirdly, being it's own brand of distro, doesn't it make perfect sense that MX Tools appears at the top of the Whisker Menu, as opposed to the control panel?
I'm not suggesting that the CP should be deleted, just keep all of those symbols in the Settings Menu of the Start menu.
But if that's done, then I would suggest changing the title of Settings to ... More Settings
I think that would be less confusing for noobs & switchers.

The MX Tools are awesome and they fullfill pretty much anything that most general users and switchers from Windoze might need to adjust. If my understanding is correct, MX Tools are also a "flagship feature" of MX Linux. And as such, I would like to suggest placing those flagship tools where they belong ... right there, where others may be used to looking for a control panel ... in MX Linux replaced by a better MX control panel (tool set).
PEACE

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richb
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#2 Post by richb »

In short I do not think so.. MX Tools and the Settings Dialog perform different functions.
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dolphin_oracle
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#3 Post by dolphin_oracle »

Pretty good thoughts. I've often wondered about this one, but in the opposite direction, combining the mx-tools into the Settings app. But some of the mx-tools aren't Settings apps (those that are do appear in the Settings/Xfce Control Panel). So goes the evolution of the current setup, keeping the Xfce Settings area that Xfce users expect (and which does have a link inside to individual MX-apps and the MX-tools center I think) and the MX-Tools launcher in a similar format familiar to what Xfce uses.

We also added a "MX-Tools" menu item for MX 17, as a way of highlighting things and cleaning up the whisker menu a bit.

I also almost never use the Xfce settings application. But one thing I try to keep in mind is that not everyone does things the way I do (which I think is a great failing in some "boutique" type distros). There are a surprising (to me anyway) of users and reviewers who expect an Xfce control center in those locations. Deviating from that standard is something that bears much cautious thought.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#4 Post by richb »

I use the settings manager very often, and it is the first thing I go to to adjust for my HDPI display. It is very good that as a dev you keep in mind that users work differently and have different needs, And therefore do not develop to your personal preferences. That is one benefit of having a dev team and discussions take place. As we all have seen many suggestions for change are personal preferences or fueled by personal experiences. That does not suggest they should not be considered as many can be very good.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#5 Post by linwinux »

Well, I clearly wasn't trying to have the settings removed. For those who read the entire post, that would have been quite clear. My main thinking was that 1. if most users can accomplish all they need for themselves with the MX Tools, then why not make that the primary settings option as in ... control panel at the top of the start menu (does this really not make sense?), and 2. that if the MX Tools are indeed one of the primary "to be proud of flagship features" of MX Linux, then why not locate it more practically for other / new / inexperienced users, in a spot where the settings for MX would make more sense, i.e. where some users with some prior experience might expect settings to be. In addition, along with all of the other settings, MX Tools plus Settings would still be available in ... More Settings ... from the Start Menu. Someone in this forum wrote that MX Tools are special, an excellent MX only feature, distinct to MX Linux. There's no denying the fact that for most average users the MX Tools are the only control panel that would ever be needed.

As before, and I can't stress this enough ... my thinking is never about me and my experience or anyone else who's already experienced, with their own wants and needs. My thinking is always about making something easier, more sensible, and more enjoyable for new / inexperienced / or switching from Windoze, users ... because IMO that's how you get a Linux distro to grow much more, much better, with faster word of mouth to way more people. That's the ultimate end goal, isn't it? Getting as many people as possible to use the distro while making them as happy as possible at the same time?
I really could care less about my personal needs or desires because ....
... I'm obviously able to take care of those, easily and quickly regardless of where MX Tools resides in the main menu.

If there's one thing that I find truly annoying, I mean something that just irritates the heck out of me, it's when things are jumbled together with seemingly little rhyme or reason within different areas of a distro. It's the reason why I got away from the MATE desktop years ago, because back then if you had a desktop such as Gnome or XFCE already installed, followed by installing Mate, you would end up with a dual Menu Editor that had idential names and identially named items for things, even though some of those pertained strictly to XFCE while others pertained strictly to MATE. Mixing things does not make things easier ... just more irritating and/or confusing.
Like it or not, MX Tools is pretty much a Control Panel for MX Linux.
Like it or not, the Control Panel top of main menu is a Control Panel for XFCE.
IMO, XFCE control panel should be at the top of menu in XFCE distros like Xubuntu ...
IMO, MX Tools should be at the top of menu in MX Linux menu, for which MX Tools was specifically designed.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#6 Post by richb »

I recognize that as your opinion. Mine is that the Settings dialog stay where it is.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#7 Post by oops »

dolphin_oracle wrote:... But one thing I try to keep in mind is that not everyone does things the way I do (which I think is a great failing in some "boutique" type distros). ... Deviating from that standard is something that bears much cautious thought.
Basically you are right, the best way is more probably to keep the xfce standard alternative and provide the MX's as a second one.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#8 Post by chrispop99 »

I would also not support this change; many users, myself included, use other Xfce distros, so would find it irritating if there were too many deviations from the norm.

The beauty of Xfce, and MX, is that the sort of changes you are proposing are easy for the user to do. For the purpose you have, as I understand it introducing MX to very new users of Linux, you could make these changes yourself and then create your own ISO. That's not something other distros make easy!

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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#9 Post by fehlix »

@linwinux .. Well... you missed an important point. The default XFCE tool for settings and adjustments is the XFCE control panel. MX Linux is a distro not only for new-comer but for experts also. And by this MX Tools and MX Tweaks fit perfectly as an addition into the XFCE control panel. For new-comer you do already have two prominent visible places within the MX Welcome pop-up screen and within the Whisker-menu favorites.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#10 Post by asqwerth »

Some things in the XFCE settings manager I use and which I access through said manager (instead of through their individual menu entries in whisker menu):

1. sessions and startup
2. display settings
3, mouse/cursor settings and themes
4. keyboard bindings

These are not in MX Tools. And aren't these things that a Windows user might associate with the control panel?

For those reasons, I feel the default XFCE settings manager should be linked to the control panel icon in whisker menu. Makes more sense to me.

You could make a panel launcher for MX Tools, for the people whom you help.
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