REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

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chrispop99
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#11 Post by chrispop99 »

It took me just 7 seconds to change the function of the icon at the top of the Whisker menu that as standard launches the Xfce settings manager to launch MX Tools instead. If the OP wants his systems to do that, it's really trivial.

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Eadwine Rose
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#12 Post by Eadwine Rose »

The settings manager is the first thing I go to when I install, or when something is going wonky. I never go to the individual parts through the menu.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#13 Post by wulf »

I think MX is fine just as it is. It's relatively easy to customise. It might not be the most "beautiful" distro out there, but it's sure not an ugly creation either, and anyway, arguably, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, plus, there is no one size fits all Linux distro, and I think it would be wrong to aim for that. For most people, whether IT professionals, business, or just individual users, stability should be the foremost concern. Irrespective of how pretty it is, if it locks-up, breaks, or is generally inconsistent, then people will walk away at some point. I read and watched every review I could find on the web about MX before I decided to run it, ranging from casual distro hoppers opinions to professional tech reviewers, and those opinions spoke volumes when compared to other distro's they had also reviewed...It shows that the devs are on the right track and that MX is getting respect big-time..

linwinux

Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#14 Post by linwinux »

The reason why I placed a questionmark after the word REQUEST, was primarily to get the discussion going. It doesn't matter if MX appears on top of the menu as a "control panel" or if things stay the same. I already said that too. My goal was primarily to find out how other people felt about the suggestion of change? I do disagree with quite a few of the comments, primarily people who have quite obviously become comfortable with MX Linux while not appearing to care so much about some things which I perceive to be important to a great distro. In particular the comment about no trade-off for prettiness, is in my opinion not valid at all when comparing the truly good Linux distros out there ... all of which are rock solid and stable as a bunch. And no, beauty is not always in the eye of the beholder only. When "plain" can be replaced with "nice" or when "cool" can be replaced with "awesome" it's no longer just about basic personal perception, since we're talking about a product that can be and is designed for the masses. I daresay that the masses would far more appreciate an excellent flawless beautiful setup on the screen, as opposed to a flawless plain looking setup on the screen.

C'mon, let's be realistic about that. Would you rather have a plate of unattractive gruel to eat, or something that's a bit more scrumptious & appetizing looking? Both may fill you up and both may be just as healthy or unhealthy, but what you see on the plate also goes a far way about how you feel when you're eating that food. The eyes always take part of the feast, just as the eyes always take in what's in front of them on the computer screen. And yes, what you view on the screen can also evoke good bad or whatever feelings about what you're doing with the tools in front of you. Sure, there are those who only care about strict performance & stability, but those people are a huge minority. I would certainly like to see MX Linux grow way beyond that ... ;)

I don't view Linux Mint, MX Linux, Debian, Ubuntu, and so on as something for me to be content with just because it works for me the way that I prefer. I also don't view MX Linux as just another alternative. for that matter, I think that MX Linux i.e. its developers have done such a phenomenal job with MX Linux, that it would thrill me to no end if MX Linux eventually outgrew Mint, Manjaro, Ubuntu, Debian, and Solus (haven't played with Solus) ... all of which are the current big boys on Distrowatch. MX Linux isn't even in the top 100 distros yet (unless I missed it), and as far as I'm concerned it should definitely be right up there with the top 5 or 10 distros. Well, whatever, just kind'a rambling now.

Anyway, I'll leave you with this comment ... Regardless what any comfortable or experienced or inflexible people may think, top reviews don't cut the mustard with popularity and establishing a global reputation! Word of mouth by users does this so much better and there's no doubt in my mind that most users prefer good looks as well as stability. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be any Windows Operating System at all and Tucker Automobiles would be the most popular cars in the world today. ;) As a matter of fact, Windows is actually a perfect example of how important looks are to people, who continue using such a massively inferior product.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#15 Post by fehlix »

linwinux wrote: ...MX Linux isn't even in the top 100 distros yet...
Hmm ... something must have been happend at the "saturday-nite" party?
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#16 Post by dolphin_oracle »

linwinux wrote: MX Linux isn't even in the top 100 distros yet (unless I missed it)
You did. We are #10 currently.

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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#17 Post by chrispop99 »

You really haven't seen that MX has been # 10 on DW for a number of weeks? Or in the top 20 for even longer?

FWIW, my involvement with the community is not in any way related to how many users there are, or how they perceive the appearance of MX; after all, there's no commercial aspect, and no one is going to win an award. I also don't really care much what any distro looks like, as I always change icon sets, wallpaper, and themes to suit my own personal taste. The only thing that is important to me in that respect is the ease (or otherwise) with which I can make those changes. It's much more important to me that the distro I use is very stable, and has a good support for when I break things. As an example, rather than tinker with the things you suggest, I would rather the team developed an easier way to theme the Whisker menu; at the moment I edit the hidden gtkrc-2.0 file I created in Home.

I strongly believe, in direct contradiction to your point of view, that the vast majority of users come to Linux in general, and MX in particular, for its performance and features, and are largely unconcerned with appearance.

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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#18 Post by linwinux »

chrispop99 wrote:You really haven't seen that MX has been # 10 on DW for a number of weeks? Or in the top 20 for even longer?
Sorry, missed it, silly me ...
chrispop99 wrote:I also don't really care much what any distro looks like, as I always change icon sets, wallpaper, and themes to suit my own personal taste. The only thing that is important to me in that respect is the ease (or otherwise) with which I can make those changes. It's much more important to me that the distro I use is very stable, and has a good support for when I break things.

I strongly believe, in direct contradiction to your point of view, that the vast majority of users come to Linux in general, and MX in particular, for its performance and features, and are largely unconcerned with appearance.
It is truly amazing to me how time and time again some people simply ignore the primary point that I'm making, regarding new users, inxperienced users, and those who are thinking about switching from Windoze to Linux.

For those people, how a new experience looks & feels is of critical importance !!!
Why ??? Because they wouldn't even know how to tell if a Linux distro is stable in the first place !!!
Those people would have nothing but the very first "look n feel" experience, in order to be drawn into using Linux.

With each and every person whom I've helped to make that switch, and we're talking 40 to 50 people during the past several years, nothing was more important than the first impression that's being presented to them on the screen. They've already heard all of the stories for Linux being stable, rock solid, safe, more secure, blah blah blah ... so those things are actually unimportant to those people since that's what they expect out of Linux to begin with, as soon as Linux is fired up on their screen for the first time. But if that very first experience doesn't look & feel right, then that's an immediate turn-off to those people. Really, you don't understand that?

You and I, and everyone else here, are already experienced people. More than likely we wouldn't even *NEED* this forum and be able to figure out what we need for ourselves ... because of our experience. Look at the Debian Homepage, the distro on which most other Linux distros are based. Debian calls Linux the Universal Operating System for Everyone. Well guess what? Everyone also includes those who are new to computers, those who are scared of Linux (Terminal paranoia), those who are trying Linux for the very first time, and so on. It's not about us or those who are already experienced, but rather about everyone, everywhere, who wants to be using a computer. Psychologically, the fastest and easiest way to make someone feel good about something that they don't know or understand, is by presenting that "strangeness" in as attractive of a package as possible !!! Starting out with a pretty & attractive desktop is far more important than some of you are willing to concede ... because you've obviously been involved with Computers/Linux for so long, that looks simply don't matter to you a great deal anymore.

When I build a Linux setup for someone, I strive to provide everything that's needed in order for the other person to have to fiddle or learn as little as humanly possible. I learned that from my wife :happy: who's been a professional computer hardware/software support technician for DEC, Compaq, HP, and eBay, spanning almost 30 years. She keeps reminding me how most general users just want their desktop to look nice and for the things they need on a daily basis, to work properly. I have learned from her and from others, also general users, that they're not interested about stats and specs and stability and and and ... Their attitude is, just give me what I want and need, in an attractive package that won't blow up on me, and that's it. Most of the people whom I deal with aren't even interested in hearing about proper scheduled updates, how to back data up easily, etc. They just want a pretty, working system.

Here's an image of a main menu that I set up for first time Linux users. Most Linux newcomers & average Windoze users will never need to go beyond that first menu, and that's why people love the systems that I set up for them. Awesome background, some compositing, a menu that provides everything with a single click, and the two most important general apps ... browser & file manager ... right there next to the menu button, so access to the menu isn't even required. I have the entire date & time displayed, and I re-write some of the app descriptions in the menu.
So far, everyone has been blown away by the first impression of Linux that I provide, because that's how you get people to feel comfortable about Linux immediately (IMO).

Again, people like you or I might care less or worry more about stability, but my goal is to present Linux in a warm n fuzzy feelie kind of way. Get it now?
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#19 Post by richb »

Since I am not fluent in German, your menu graphics are unintelligible to me. As a result I cannot evaluate it.

Our user base is diverse with both new and experienced users. Many come from another XFCE distro. The goal is to make it friendly and usable for everyone. A goal that is assiduously worked toward, the Holy Grail if you will. And We know the Holy Grail has never been found.

It is commendable that you service new users with your vision of what it should be. MX is configurable for you to do that and anyone else with a different vision. The devs have their vision with the result being MX 17.1. They have been responsive to suggestions. Not all suggestions are implemented and one should recognize that decision. You have made your case, and now let us see what happens.
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Re: REQUEST? MX Tools - Control Panel - CP removal possible?

#20 Post by asqwerth »

This is going off track. And I'm scratching my head over this.

The thread was your proposal that the control panel icon in Whisker Menu should link to MX Tools rather than XFCE Settings Manager. You said MX Tools should take pride of place on said menu. But you also talked about how you generally did not need to use the XFCE settings and mainly stuck to MX Tools. A few members said, no, there were items in Settings Manager they used that were not in MX Tools, and the Settings Manager was still pretty useful. I pointed out that hardware/device settings would be found in Settings Manager, and isn't that what a user coming from Windows would expect to find in their control panel? Others said MX Tools icon was already in Favourites in the menu anyway.

So there is a difference in opinion as to which settings are more commonly used or considered more important. It can be seen from posts that other members do use xfce settings manager, so your view would appear to be a personal preference based on your usage (as are other people's). You did say in an earlier post:
My goal was primarily to find out how other people felt about the suggestion of change?
And you did.


But really, it's not a big problem for you even if the default does not change, since there is nothing stopping you from changing the icon in Whisker to point to the MX Tools for your spin.

Let me stress that I agree with you that it is good for MX to make a good visual impression. However, while I don't think MX is as flashy as some other distros with as much eye candy, I do think that right now the default look is pretty presentable. It is not perfect but with feedback (including, but not limited to only, yours) which the Dev Team will think over, it will continue to be refined in an evolutionary, not revolutionary, way.

And again, there is nothing stopping you from changing the look and feel of your spin to help the people you are introducing MX to.
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