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Finally De-Googled

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piperdan
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#71 Post by piperdan » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:48 pm

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Last edited by piperdan on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clicktician
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#72 Post by clicktician » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:04 pm

xali wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:45 pm
i mean our personal data can be used against us, i think. do you agree or not? and if you agree do you accept that, as it seems or not?
Of course, it can. But isn't the real question, "is your behavior on the internet private?" I would say that, outside your passwords, there is very little data known exclusively by you. And even then, there are sites that store passwords and not hashes. The web just wouldn't be a very useful place if it were known only to you.

I'm really fascinated, tho, by the many critics of companies like Microsoft that typically employ security through obscurity; yet these same critics are the first to recommend obscurity for personal security. Isn't that curious?

If I've learned anything from the open source world, it is to minimize that which you must hide. Then protect that in pubic, well-known ways. If you must be invisible, look like everyone else. Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before someone discovers your secrets.
Son, someday all this will belong to your ex wife.

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Eadwine Rose
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#73 Post by Eadwine Rose » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:06 am

I am a reasonably private person, you will not find much using my real name online. You will not find that much on my facebook, everything is set to private. So.. employers and people like that will not find much on me, and that is good enough for me.



My thoughts are this: everyone has stuff online, be it browser history, whatever. Everything can get logged so if an agency (be it an ISP or NSA or whatever) with enough power really wants to, they can find out just about anything.

What people forget is this: what Joe Bobble Hillbilly does (read: plain jane internet user that does nothing wrong) is of NO interest to these folks. Zip, zilch, nada. On the grand scale of things our meager existences in the intarwebbers is about the size of an ant if you compare it to our real world.

NO ONE (ok, bar a few crazies) cares when an ant gets run over, we don't even SEE them.

Now.. when you become the equivalent of a bird, interest wise, THAT is when you should start to get worried. I mean.. Joe Bobble has no issues there, nobody cares, he's still an ant. However, if you are emitting behavior that gets flagged, THEN you become a bird, and you become visible and interesting, then you get seen.


Us normal users using da Google to get our locations, use trackers for fun, get our mail, do our hair, buy our milk..? Nobody cares. We need to realize we are nothing more than ants in the grand scheme of things. It is our own paranoia that makes us go "EEEEK GOOGLE!!"


And if it is about private stuff, as I said in the beginning: you will not find much about me using my real name. Just don't put stuff online that you don't want others to see.
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#74 Post by HessenZone » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:50 am

I actually don't think that paranoia has anything to do with it. With me it's all about freedom on the Internet and the respect for privacy. Google makes money on so many different levels with so many different projects and companies which Google purchased over time, that there's no reason for me to ever see even a single ad in my browser results. I was never bombarded with ads by Lycos, Alta Vista, or other Engines and I'll be damned if Google is going to take away part of my freedom just because Google decided to horde everyting that Google can. So my browsers and my smartphone do indeed have ad-blockers. I don't owe Google anything for using a service that they took over (Search Engines, Android, Chrome, none of which were developed from scratch by Google).

But so much more importantly, and let's not forget that microphones & web cams also come into play here, I have, in my opinion, an *ABSOLUTE* *RIGHT* to privacy as long as I'm sitting in my own four walls (yeah, I feel quite strongly about that), and I do know how terrible identity theft can be from someone whom this has happened to, who needed over 3 years to straighten out the mess that was created for that persons life. To me, tracking me and my comments, my photos, possibly my videos, things that I say which can be picked up by a microphone, cameras that are watching me in my own house (hear about the Samsung TV scandal a few years back? Smart TVs with hidden built-in cameras), etc. It's about my right to not be profiled like some criminal by sources which are invading our homes, generating deeply personal profiles which are not only far more detailed than anything that a Shrink might come up with about you, but profiles which are shared between companies, sold between companies, and on some ocassions even profiles which are shared amongst different governments.
That may be the world that we live in today, but that doesn't mean that I have to make myself succeptible to it ... voluntarily.
.

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xali
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#75 Post by xali » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:31 am

clicktician wrote:Of course, it can. But isn't the real question, "is your behavior on the internet private?" I would say that, outside your passwords, there is very little data known exclusively by you. And even then, there are sites that store passwords and not hashes. The web just wouldn't be a very useful place if it were known only to you.

I'm really fascinated, tho, by the many critics of companies like Microsoft that typically employ security through obscurity; yet these same critics are the first to recommend obscurity for personal security. Isn't that curious?

If I've learned anything from the open source world, it is to minimize that which you must hide. Then protect that in pubic, well-known ways. If you must be invisible, look like everyone else. Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before someone discovers your secrets.
i think that security through obsurity was a way to go several years back but not anymore. Not in the era that AI and data mining are hugely improved, things are changing, we might change our ways too. That is why we are talking about our personal filter bubbles and their data. There is no obscurity anymore and for that we can't be a "gray man" or an ant like eadwine rose said that simply. What we can do, imho, is to make harder for everyone who wants to collect our personal data to get it. That is why, i think, we should not use google services for example. Thanks for the reply clicktician.

And by the way, nice conversation guys, i was expecting that in this forum and it is very nice to confirm it. :number1:

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HessenZone
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#76 Post by HessenZone » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:29 am

clicktician wrote:I'm really fascinated, tho, by the many critics of companies like Microsoft that typically employ security through obscurity; yet these same critics are the first to recommend obscurity for personal security. Isn't that curious?
What I find interesting & dismaying at the same time, is how the laws & governments changed their own views of privacy over time. For example, during the late 90s here in Europe, Microsoft was ordered by several Governments, at risk of banning the Windows OS from normal shopping stores altogether plus facing monumental fines, to separate the IE browser from the OS which was at that time intertwined in a way where people were literally forced to use IE whether they liked it or not. Sure, knowledgable people could change this after the initial installation of Windows, but it wasn't anywhere nearly as simple to do as it is today. The European Governments, Germany most of all, cited the freedom of the Internet to allow people to browse, email, etc. any which way was demanded by the user, without Microsoft being able to shove IE down peoples throats or interfere with their demand for maintaining the right to an individual's privacy.

Years later, along came the Mac Store, Music Stores, Android and Google Play Store, even an Ubuntu Music Store, etc., so that all of the previous privacy of the 90s was eventually completely disbanded. Today, installing Windows8 or Windows10 also means that, just like in the 90s, you're automatically tied into everything Microsoft - worse than ever before - and of course with IE (or whatever they call it on Win10 these days). Social Media of course made privacy concerns even worse i.e. meaning nearly irrelavant. This is a clear and direct corellation between the importance of money & data over the importance of privacy & security. Last week someone brought me a Windows 10 computer to work on. I had to really dive into the system for some fixes with needed adjustments and was quite honestly shocked at how everything that a user does has been completely integrated into the online services and browser of Microsoft. Literally everything that you do, see, and hear on a Windows 10 machine can be tracked by MS. Scary stuff ... :eek:
(considering how probably 99.9% of Win10 users don't know about or care about changing those settings)
.

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piperdan
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#77 Post by piperdan » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:56 am

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Eadwine Rose
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#78 Post by Eadwine Rose » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:01 am

It could.. but takes a very good leader, the likes we have not yet seen, to make that happen.
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stsoh
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#79 Post by stsoh » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:06 am

there are no good leaders in the world........so don't place any hope on it. :frown:
all are shady........live n let live. ;) :happy:
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Re: Finally De-Googled

#80 Post by richb » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:09 am

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