Welcome!
Important information
-- Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities
-- Change in MX sources

News
-- MX Linux on social media: here
-- Mepis support still here

Current releases
-- MX-17.1 Final release info here
-- antiX-17 release info here

New users
-- Please read this first, and don't forget to add system and hardware information to posts!
-- Here are the Forum Rules

Fundamental questions about migration and versions

Those new to MEPIS or not very experienced can post their questions here.
Message
Author
darth.severus
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:21 am

Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#1 Post by darth.severus » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:50 pm

Hi, I'm not completely new to Gnu/Linux, but I got a little bit confused.

I'm using MX-14.4, so for I know this is based on Debian 7, while MX-15 is based on Debian 8
The most sources in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ look all like they are just Debian stable
So what's the real difference to MX-15, why can't I upgrade it automatically?

mepiscommunity.org/migration: From MX-14.4 to MX-15: you're on your own!
What's the real difference to a kernel upgrade with smxi?

And why should I make a new install of MX-15, e.g. will the newer glibc only be available in MX-15?
Acer Extensa 2519 with 4GB RAM v: V1.22 | Intel Celeron N3050 1.6 GHz | DRI Intel HD Graphics 400 (Braswell)

NGIB
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:12 pm

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#2 Post by NGIB » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:04 pm

The difference between Debian versions is literally everything, not just a kernel or video driver. Also MX-14 was 32 bit only and MX-15 is either 32 or 64 bit. You don't have to install MX-15 but at some point MX-14 will no longer receive Debian support but that is likely a ways off. Buntu (except for LTS) has a 9 month cycle so less stuff changes between versions which makes upgrading more feasible, Debian is on a multi-year cycle.

This is an answer from just a plain user, I'm sure the devs can get way more technical...
Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid...

User avatar
timkb4cq
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 4264
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:05 pm

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#3 Post by timkb4cq » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:27 pm

Debian stable is a wonderful solid distribution that can be upgraded in place to the next debian stable automatically as long as you don't stray from the debian stable repos.

Unfortunately one of the consequences of using debian stable is that those repositories often have old versions of programs you want to use & will be missing some new programs that require newer libraries.

MX uses debian stable as a base but updates a lot of the userland programs & libraries, and backports newer programs from testing but built against the stable base.

That gives a better user experience but interferes with debian's dist-upgrade path.
Our choice to stick with sysvinit instead of going full systemd also interferes with that path.

I've tried dist-upgrading MX-14 to Jessie, and while I eventually succeeded after a *lot* of manual intervention, the result was nowhere near as polished as the first MX-15 alpha.

So it's a trade-off. Better desktop user experience at the expense of a sub 15min fresh install (which lets you save /home if desired) whenever the debian base of MX changes. I'll take that trade for desktop use.
MSI 970A-G43 MB, AMD FX-6300 (six core), 16GB RAM, GeForce 730, Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Seagate Barracuda XT 3TB

User avatar
BitJam
Forum Guide
Forum Guide
Posts: 2472
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#4 Post by BitJam » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:49 pm

Tim, thank you for explaining the philosophy and its consequences so clearly.
Will I cry when it's all over?
When I die will I see Heaven?

User avatar
uncle mark
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 4966
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#5 Post by uncle mark » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:27 pm

BitJam wrote:Tim, thank you for explaining the philosophy and its consequences so clearly.
Agreed.

General thoughts: Ubuntu (among others) does us no favors when they claim to support updates between versions (although the success rate is poor, from what I've seen). Still, it's best to be straightforward about it up front. Don't want to do a fresh update? Then stick with the old version.
Desktop: Custom build Asus/AMD/nVidia -- MEPIS 11
Laptop: Acer Aspire 5250 -- MX-15
Assorted junk: assorted Linuxes

User avatar
Gordon Cooper
Forum Guide
Forum Guide
Posts: 1904
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#6 Post by Gordon Cooper » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:59 am

uncle mark wrote:
BitJam wrote:Tim, thank you for explaining the philosophy and its consequences so clearly.
Agreed.

General thoughts: Ubuntu (among others) does us no favors when they claim to support updates between versions (although the success rate is poor, from what I've seen). Still, it's best to be straightforward about it up front. Don't want to do a fresh update? Then stick with the old version.
Agreed, UM, even more so. If the old version does everything that you wish, then why change? I can understand the 'Doze approach to this, where a new version means more income, but with Free Software, why change for the sake of it? Don't fix it, if it ain't broke.
Homebrew64 bit Intel duo core 2 GB RAM, 120 GB Kingston SSD, Seagate1TB.
Primary OS : MX-17.1 64bit. Also MX17, Kubuntu14.04 & Puppy 6.3.
Dell9010, MX-17.1, Win7

darth.severus
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:21 am

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#7 Post by darth.severus » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:13 am

Hmm, okay. Thanks for the infos.

In my case it's so that I installed some stuff by source/make, and I don't want to install this again. I also don't remember what and how much it was. The repo packages wouldn't be the problem, with using 'dpkg -i' to reinstall. But I might find out up and on that I have to install this or that which I had installed by source/make. It would be more then 15 minutes to get my setup back.
In the future I'll better stick to the community repo to install 3party software. For now I stay with 14.4. So far I only got issues with Telegram, but this isn't important to me.
Acer Extensa 2519 with 4GB RAM v: V1.22 | Intel Celeron N3050 1.6 GHz | DRI Intel HD Graphics 400 (Braswell)

User avatar
uncle mark
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 4966
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#8 Post by uncle mark » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:54 am

Gordon Cooper wrote:If the old version does everything that you wish, then why change? I can understand the 'Doze approach to this, where a new version means more income, but with Free Software, why change for the sake of it? Don't fix it, if it ain't broke.
Word, my brutha. You talkin' to the guy who is running M11 and who until just recently was using Fx v4.0.1 and TB v2.0.0.24.

My car and my wife are old versions too, but they suit me just fine.
Desktop: Custom build Asus/AMD/nVidia -- MEPIS 11
Laptop: Acer Aspire 5250 -- MX-15
Assorted junk: assorted Linuxes

darth.severus
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:21 am

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#9 Post by darth.severus » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:42 am

uncle mark wrote:
Gordon Cooper wrote:If the old version does everything that you wish, then why change? I can understand the 'Doze approach to this, where a new version means more income, but with Free Software, why change for the sake of it? Don't fix it, if it ain't broke.
Word, my brutha. You talkin' to the guy who is running M11 and who until just recently was using Fx v4.0.1 and TB v2.0.0.24.
And Software like Skype, Iceweasel, etc. is running? There surely will be problems with some programs, or not?
Acer Extensa 2519 with 4GB RAM v: V1.22 | Intel Celeron N3050 1.6 GHz | DRI Intel HD Graphics 400 (Braswell)

User avatar
entropyfoe
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:42 am

Re: Fundamental questions about migration and versions

#10 Post by entropyfoe » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:20 pm

uncle mark,

Yup, I like old stuff that runs well.

My main machine has the grub in Mepis 11.92 (Mepis12 beta2 fully updated). It is still great.

But I am thinking of putting MX-15 in the top spot, replacing the Mepis12 on sda1, sda2=swap, sda3 /home.

Then i will experiment with MX-15 with KDE on the experimental sda4 partition.

It will be sad, but I am ready to move on.

Darth.severus...I am running the latest Firefox esr on my Mepis 12.
The community does a great job keeping key applications fresh and viable. Not sure about skype.
Asus Prime 370X-Pro
AMD Ryzen 1600X (6 cores @ 3.6 GHz)
16 Gig DDR4 3200 (G Skill)
Nvidia -MSI GeForce GT 710 fanless
Samsung 960 NVMe SSD nvme0n1 P1,P2, and P3=MX-17.1, P4=antiX-17
1TB SSD sda1= Data, 2TB WD =backups
on-board ethernet & sound

Post Reply

Return to “Newbies”