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Off Topic - PineBook Pro

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Buck Fankers
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:06 pm

Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#1 Post by Buck Fankers »

(I hope I choose proper sub-forum, couldn't find Off Topic one. If not, moderator please move it to proper destination)

Pinebook already made and sells under powered $99 laptops, but for this year, they are upgrading it to become 'daily driver' for $199. Specs are great considering price. Will come with several Linux versions pre-installed, well option to choose one, one of them is Manjaro. The CPU is singleboard ARM so Linux need to be ported/made for ARM and you can't just use any kind of Linux you want, if it is not designed for ARM CPU, is my understanding?

With MX/antiX small team I wonder if this is something that is currently possible? But I suggest to keep an eye on Pine brand. With their price targets and open source, they may become important factor. They are also working on PineTab, Linux based tablet ($80). And smart phone (~$150). Smart phone will have physical switch to turn off microphone, camera...! Price tags tells you these devices will not be latest and greatest, but I'm excited, since they are really focusing on privacy and open source. 2019 will be an interesting year.

Specs and links:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevang ... 0b123b49eb

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/01/pin ... nux-tablet

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=i9NPTE2xEL8


Pinebook Pro ($199)
- 14" 1080p IPS LCD panel
- 64GB of eMMC storage (if you are subscriber of their forum, you will get 128GB of eMMC storage)
- Black magnesium alloy body
- MicroSD card slot
- Digital video output via USB-C
- Audio aux out / UART
- USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 ports
- 802.11ac WiFi
- Bluetooth 4.2
- 4GB of LPDDR4 RAM
- Charging via barrel port or USB-C
- Rockchip RK3399 Hexacore SOC
- 2mpx front-facing camera
- Microphone
- Speakers
- Slim and slick design with minimal branding
- PCIe x4 that can take a m.2 NVMe SSD
- Price: aiming at $199

PinePhone ($150)
- USB C for data and charging
- HDMI
- BT/ WiFi
- 4G LTE
- Privacy (hardware) switches for BT/WiFi, LTE, cameras, speaker
- eMMC module socket
- mSD Slot
- Gyro magnetic sensor
- Light sensor
- Volume, power, reset, home buttons
- Audio aux
- MiPi and TP interfaces
- 2mpx and 5mpx front / back cameras
- Small and compact size of (approx. 165x77mm)
- 1440x720 IPS panel
- SOPine module: Allwinner A64 with 2GB of LPDDR3 RAM
- Price Target: $150

PineTab ($80, $100 with detachable keyboard)
- Bluetooth 4.1
- WiFi 2.4Ghz
- 16GB of eMMC
- Allwinner A64
- 2GB of LPDDR3 RAM
- 720p IPS 10” LCD (MiPi)
- USB 2.0 A host
- Micro USB 2.0 OTG
- mSD slot
- 2mpx front-facing camera
- 5mpx rear camera
- Speakers and microphone
- Volume rocker and ‘home’ button
- Magnetically attached keyboard + trackpad
- Target price for PineTab + keyboard: $99 ($79 for standalone PineTab)

CUBE IP Camera
- Allwinner S3L Cortex-A7
- 64MB DDR2
- 128Mb SPI Flash
- mSD slot
- Sony CMOS camera is iMX179 (MiPi interface) - YES, it is in fact 8.08 Megapixels
- 10/100M Ethernet, 802.11 b/g/n WiFi
- Bluetooth 4.1
- USB 2.0
- 32pin GPIO header
- Power over Ethernet (PoE)
- Target price: ~$20

skidoo
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:56 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#2 Post by skidoo »

I first saw that announcemnt on liliputing.com
Later, at https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments ... ge_google/, I noticed a comment (criticism): the PinebookPro will probably (still) have soldered RAM.

a separate news article listed specs for these new boards:
Rock64 Revision 3
Pine H64 Model B
https://liliputing.com/2019/02/pine64s- ... at-25.html
I suggest to keep an eye on Pine brand.
Agree, but more importantly (IMO), keep an eye on the tone and content of their user support forum.
(red flags: reported problems unaddressed, issues swept under the rug, promised fixes not materializing after xx months...)

User avatar
KBD
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:52 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#3 Post by KBD »

"We've heard you. Many of you want a high-performance 64-bit ARM laptop that is strictly designed with FOSS in mind and can be used as a day-to-day Linux laptop. Premium materials, great manufacture quality and performance. We're making it happen." ~ Pine64's Luke Erecinski
It's hard to believe you are getting 'premium materials' for $200. I hope it lives up to the hype, but in many cases you are going to be better off with a $200 Chromebook, or better yet, a used/refurbished Thinkpad off of Ebay, which at $200 is going to be a nice machine that will run whatever type Linux you want.
For instance, quick search turns up a Thinkpad 14" T440 $170 incl ship:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkpa ... rk:18:pf:0

Specs:
Intel Core i5-4300M 2.5 GHz
8GB DDR3 RAM
250GB
14.0" HD (1600x900) Screen
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
comes with adapter

User avatar
MX-16_fan
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#4 Post by MX-16_fan »

@Buck Fankers:
Buck Fankers wrote: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 pm (...)
Pinebook already made and sells under powered $99 laptops, but for this year, they are upgrading it to become 'daily driver' for $199. Specs are great considering price. Will come with several Linux versions pre-installed, well option to choose one, one of them is Manjaro. The CPU is singleboard ARM so Linux need to be ported/made for ARM and you can't just use any kind of Linux you want, if it is not designed for ARM CPU, is my understanding?

With MX/antiX small team I wonder if this is something that is currently possible? But I suggest to keep an eye on Pine brand. With their price targets and open source, they may become important factor. They are also working on PineTab, Linux based tablet ($80). And smart phone (~$150). Smart phone will have physical switch to turn off microphone, camera...! Price tags tells you these devices will not be latest and greatest, but I'm excited, since they are really focusing on privacy and open source. 2019 will be an interesting year.
(...)

According to https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevang ... s-for-199/, the Pinebook Pro will be built around the Rockchip RK3399, which, to my understanding, means that it will be affected by the ARM Cortex-A72's Spectre vulnerability (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Corte ... rnal_links / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Corte ... rnal_links) (please correct me if I'm wrong here).

Maybe you'd rather have a look at the TERES-A64 (https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Lap ... e-hardware), or at the "Completely Assembled Laptop + Computer Card" based on EOMA68 (https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop)?


Greetings, Joe

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Head_on_a_Stick
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:37 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#5 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

MX-16_fan wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:08 pm it will be affected by the ARM Cortex-A72's Spectre vulnerability
The mitigations for SpectreV2 were pushed out with kernel 4.16[1], SpectreV4 was mitigated for kernel 4.18[2] so I think the situation is similar to amd64, as long as the backported kernel is used.

If anybody with a PineBook wants to check they can run

Code: Select all

grep -R . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities
See also https://developer.arm.com/support/arm-s ... nerability

But of course these mitigations don't protect against any undiscovered side-channel attacks, of which there may be many.

Off topic:

For full protection against speculative execution vulnerabilities look at RISC-V: https://riscv.org/2018/01/more-secure-world-risc-v-isa/

SiFive's RISC-V implementations are completely immune: https://www.sifive.com/blog/sifive-stat ... nd-spectre
mod note: Signature removed, please read the forum rules

User avatar
MX-16_fan
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#6 Post by MX-16_fan »

@Head_on_a_Stick:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:34 pm (...) SiFive's RISC-V implementations are completely immune: https://www.sifive.com/blog/sifive-stat ... nd-spectre

No RISC-V-based notebooks on the market yet, however, nor announced, AFAIK. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.


Greetings, Joe

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Head_on_a_Stick
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:37 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#7 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

No, there are no RISC-V laptops, you are quite correct about that.

And the 64-bit hacker board from SiFive costs $1,000 so...

Still, we can dream, eh?
mod note: Signature removed, please read the forum rules

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Buck Fankers
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:06 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#8 Post by Buck Fankers »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:34 pm SiFive's RISC-V implementations are completely immune: https://www.sifive.com/blog/sifive-stat ... nd-spectre
Oh yes, I'm impatiently waiting on this open source, no proprietary binaries RISC CPU's. Last year I've read that they are moving forward, hope it continues, can't wait!

User avatar
Buck Fankers
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:06 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#9 Post by Buck Fankers »

MX-16_fan wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:08 pm According to https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevang ... s-for-199/, the Pinebook Pro will be built around the Rockchip RK3399, which, to my understanding, means that it will be affected by the ARM Cortex-A72's Spectre vulnerability (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Corte ... rnal_links / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Corte ... rnal_links) (please correct me if I'm wrong here).
Good info, thanks for sharing

User avatar
MX-16_fan
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: Off Topic - PineBook Pro

#10 Post by MX-16_fan »

@Buck Fankers:
Buck Fankers wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:21 pm (...) Good info, thanks for sharing

Pleasure :happy:! However, if you want to be 100% sure whether the Rockchip which is to be in use is affected, you might have to do some additional research. Here's two links for a start: https://www.techarp.com/guides/complete ... pu-list/4/, https://developer.arm.com/support/arm-s ... nerability.

Btw. looks like the simple Pinebook (the non-"Pro" one), which is based on the A-53, isn't affected by Spectre at all.


Greetings, Joe

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