MX for Beginners.

[Jerry3904]

Yup, not our mission.

[richb]

@ Gaer Boy,

I second the well said and Jerry's comment.

[chrispop99]

I support a number of 'friends and family' computer users, almost all on Windows. Mostly, they would not attempt something as simple as installing a printer driver, and would ask me to do it for them. I have one lady that uses a (non-MX) Linux laptop I gave her, and I've shown her how to update, and written some simple instructions to remind her. She never does it, and asks me to do so when I visit. She is technically capable of doing it, but simply lacks the confidence to do so.

I'm pretty sure they are representative of users generally, and they would be both uninterested in installing an alternative OS, and incapable of doing so without one-to-one support. To try to make any Linux distro installable by such users is impossible as they would not understand the most basic of concepts, and would have no interest in learning. Therefore, it would simply be a waste of time trying.

Chris

[Redacted]

I really can't say anything better than what's said before, but as a user - not a developer - I'd like to add my thought.
I don't use MX because it's popular or totally point and click easy.
I use it because it simply works and allows me freedom to do what I want to it.
If it takes a forum post, or a little "googling" to work out a problem, well then, so be it.

[linwinux]

I'm a humble member of the dev team - I'm not a developer, just a tester. I think you have this completely wrong. The small handful of serious developers (ie coders) for MX Linux are very busy keeping up with upstream changes, improving applications and MX Tools and working ahead for the next release. That is their function, not supporting new users. The clue is in the job title - Developer!

We are very fortunate with MX Linux that most of the developers are very active on the Forum and respond quickly and generously to the most basic questions, many of which have been covered already. They are also willing to spend a lot of time resolving more complex problems for individual users who may have unusual hardware. It would be counter-productive for them to spend time devising support materials for new users. That's a job for others and we don't have enough volunteers for the role. As askwerth says, feel free to assist.

Phil

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that developers aren't busy. I was getting at the fact that MX no longer needed to be created from scratch with "zillions" of adjustments to new (now fully existing) applications. And you're right, the developers shouldn't be forced to work on issues that don't so much have to do with the actual development of the inner workings of MX itself. The point that I was trying to make, and it's something that I've experienced on all Linux forums where I've been or am still a member (Debian, Ubuntu, Mate, Mint, PCLinux, and MX Linux), is that most devleopers simply have a hard time relating to those with little to no computer knowledge ... consequently, wouldn't it be great if "someone" actually tried to understand that, take it to heart, while using their knowledge to help those who are less fortunate or not able to understand anything about computer technology? That's what I strive to do, to make Linux as dummy proof as I possibly can.

So far I have 10 help files written, but they're all in German since there are precious few (none?) actual German resources for Mx Linux available, and since I happen to be located in Germany, a Country with a language that's also my birth language. For the general people that I deal with, the official MX manual can't even be recommended. As stated before, my wife has 30 years of professional computer experience and wouldn't have a clue what to do with that manual. Why? Because she's dumb? Because she's lazy? Because she doesn't care? No, it's because she's just another one of "zillions" of Jane doe or Joe Blow users. And most computer users want to do exactly that and nothing more ... to use a finished and running machine with installed point 'n' click software!

Where does it say or imply anything anywhere, that Mx Linux should be used strictly by technical inclined people?
I got news for you, when it's open source or available to the general public ... that means it's thereby meant for anyone & everyone!

My files are for people who receive a finished MX Linux system. They never have to worry about downloading an .iso, looking at a Manual which won't make any sense to them, having to understand what to use and how to get a downloaded .iso to boot from a stick, worrying about partitions, their sizes, differing file systems, etc. etc. etc. That's what the big turn-off is to people who are not computer literate. Those people, and those who are otherwise unfortunate, deserve to have an OS that's no different than Windows or Mac once the power button has been depressed.
It starts, it looks great, it's stable, it's safe, and it's easy for darn near everyone (EVERYONE) to use!
To me personally, that's the real power & freedom of Linux ... to be able to be there for absolutely everyone, while being even better than Win or Mac ...

.

[linwinux]

I support a number of 'friends and family' computer users, almost all on Windows. Mostly, they would not attempt something as simple as installing a printer driver, and would ask me to do it for them. I have one lady that uses a (non-MX) Linux laptop I gave her, and I've shown her how to update, and written some simple instructions to remind her. She never does it, and asks me to do so when I visit. She is technically capable of doing it, but simply lacks the confidence to do so.

I'm pretty sure they are representative of users generally, and they would be both uninterested in installing an alternative OS, and incapable of doing so without one-to-one support. To try to make any Linux distro installable by such users is impossible as they would not understand the most basic of concepts, and would have no interest in learning. Therefore, it would simply be a waste of time trying.

Chris

Amen! I relate to that completely. If it's not 100% automated, then one to one support is what's desired ... no matter how smart and/or college educated some of those people might be. However, there are so many of us who could actually simply things a bit more than they are. Nothing wrong with that, is there? And like it or not, since it's the developers & code writers who have the final say as to what does or does not belong in an OS, there's obviously at last some input/work required from them as well. Most computer users don't install Windows or Mac either, they just get it that way ...

[Richard]

Remember a basic fundamental of Linux:
It is built by developers because they want a system that works the way they want it to work.
The stated goal is often to scratch their own itch. If others want to use it that is inspiring but not the reason.

Your mission, if you wish to accept it, is to create a workable solution to support, teach and educate
those who do not care, but only want their computer to browse the internet, do facebook, google,
messenger, email, whatsapp, etal, and perhaps some letters with a simple word processor.

When you speak of MX needs this, that or the other, it sounds as if you want someone else to do it.
I don't believe that is actually what you desire, but it often comes across as such.

When you build computers configured to be idiot-proof, my opinion is that they will remain semi-literate
computer users. Perhaps they do not want to actually learn about computers, they just want to use it.
For the vast majority of people who grew up using Windows that is true. The reason that most computers are sold with an operating system installed is because they would not have sold so many computers if it only came with floppies or CDs, like my first Commodore-64 that came with the OS in ROM, or the Kaypro2 that came with CP/M disks and apps to be installed.

This is a small distribution of free software, developed as open source which means that the source code is available to you. That is what FLOSS is about. We help people with their problems in getting the distribution to run on their hardware. Not all hardware is created equal. There are web sites that maintain lists of hardware known to be compatible with Linux in general. Not everyone knows those sites exist until they are already involved.

tl;dr

1. Please write some of your succesful ideas for educating computer users. I will be happy to proofread the English, even the Spanish and there are others who will help. My German is elementary and long ago so I can not translate German to English.
2. Write up some direct, simplified text to educate computer neophytes in a form ready to use, perhaps as a pdf that could be included.

My honest opinion is that if someone wants to use Linux they must learn to help themselves.
I began in 1998, installing, breaking, reinstalling, using, changing, breaking, installing until it worked.
Linux is not Windows. The Debian refrain that, "if you break it, you get to keep both parts", is still
very much a part of FLOSS. Users are expected to learn or go away.

I will still help you if you start a project, and you must start it or it will never happen.

Regards,
Richard.

[fehlix]

One of the most honorable visionary of this MX/anitX-project placed a kind of principle of this project it is based on in his message footer:

Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it.

If you say something and you feel, that you do not get heard, do something.

@linwinux: Getting such a nice offer as made by Richard to contribute, I would feel honored.

[2guntom]

Wow, what a read (from first post to end).

To narrow this whole thread, the term "beginner" needs to be defined.

"People" in general do not qualify as "beginners".

For the sake of the point, I'm defining a "beginner" as someone who *wants to* try, *wants to* learn, might even be willing to *read* something...

Most people do *not* fit in that description.

These people we will call "users". "Users" are the majority of people; they *use* things. They do *not* want to learn, try, read, experiment, listen... they just *use* stuff.

"Users" cannot install or repair Windows, Linux, or even, heaven forbid, repair or reinstall Apple or Android.

Bottom line, the average "user" does not know how to *properly* use what they use.

That is where "we" come in. "We" are the "community". It really is an "Us" and "them" scenario. "Us" (we) were once "beginners" that wanted to try, learn... some of us did some reading, asked questions, broke things, fixed things... "We" aren't beginners anymore. We don't just *use* stuff, we *know* stuff.

It is up to "us" to help the "users". We *know* stuff; the "users" don't.

"We" must first pitch to the "users" *why* MX is better than their Windows. "We" must show the "users" the benefits. The "users" can completely thrash a Windows installation in 30 days, or even 24 hours, but MX doesn't possess the thrashable components. "We" show "users" how they can still get online in MX, and do Facebook, Google, eBay, Amazon, and still play MegaStopper/BubblePopper/FruitCrystalWitch/CasinoCard/PokerStoker/PublishersClearingMouse/Whatever, but *NOT DESTROY THE OS*.

Yes, "we" must install MX for "users". It is up to us. "We" must answer their questions. "We" must help them, the "users".

This forum and any "support" is *NOT* for "users"; it is for those of us that were once "beginners", or maybe really are "beginners" as defined above. It is for "us", not them.

So if "beginners" is defined as

I'm defining a "beginner" as someone who *wants to* try, *wants to* learn, might even be willing to *read* something...

Is MX suited for "beginners"?

I think so.

MX is *NOT* for "users" until "we" help them

- -

[clicktician]

Anyone who sez Linux isn't for beginners, probably doesn't see the market clearly.

58% of the education market runs on Chromebooks. A whole generation of people are growing into adults -- and they only know Chromebook and Android.
Apple and MS are really sweating to compete with the massive grip those products have on the young, and it scares them. Because if you can build loyalty at an early age, it often remains for life, and Google knows this well.
Google just announced that you can run Debian apps on your Chromebook. Tada! Who didn't see that coming?

MX is a great progression from Chromebook. It's much more familiar to the Chromebook user than Windows or iOS will ever be.

I think for MX to try to compete with Chromebook for the beginner linux market is positioning the product incorrectly. It's definitely an upgrade, and I think it's a marketing mistake to go head-to-head with Google on this.