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Systemd free MX19?

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baldyeti
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#31

Post by baldyeti » Sun May 19, 2019 5:04 am

It is perfectly fine if the developers would rather discuss the issue in closed group rather than with folks who won't help with implementing anyway and just want both options preserved perhaps without realising someone has to work for it.

But if devs are willing to share what i'd like to know is
  • do antiX and MX use really different sysVinit systems - only MX seems to require the shim, why is that
  • is the loss of current live/snapshotting capabilities the holdout to moving to systemd, or a more "philosophical" veto ?
  • could MX be better aligned with antiX by dropping the shim and perhaps document and try to provide recipes or alternative init scripts for SW that seems to require systemd
  • does remaining one of the top-ranking distros matter more than preserving synergy with antiX and the unique capabilities it brings to the table
The main thing is for developers to keep having fun. Perhaps a popular distro relying on sysVinit only is all some debian maintainers need to keep testing and maintaining their startup scripts.

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mxer
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#32

Post by mxer » Sun May 19, 2019 5:53 am

May be it is time to take a serious look at Devuan.
If they can keep it out, & still give a good selection of software in their repos.
I tried Devuan a while ago, & it could be the answer.
(FOSS, Linux, & BSD since 1999)

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asqwerth
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#33

Post by asqwerth » Sun May 19, 2019 5:59 am

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gosia
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#34

Post by gosia » Sun May 19, 2019 7:32 am

Hello kernelkurtz,
kernelkurtz wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 3:53 am
Some of the logic in this thread escapes me.

I was an early adopter of Manjaro mainly because the OpenRC version was quite perfect. When they decided it wasn't going to be supported, I jumped ship and came to MX. For my purpose it was the closest thing to the dead distro I loved.
thank you, you speak from my heart. Because I went a similar way: first very satisfied with Manjaro and openrc, until openrc was abolished. Then I found MX and was thrilled. MX offers the possibility to choose (I use openrc again) and if you really want it, you can also start with systemd. Perfect.
And if it's difficult to have both now, then leave systemd out, as I said before. If I look at the survey from April 16th viewtopic.php?f=94&t=49723
it doesn't seem to be a big problem. 89% use sysVinit, that's an overwhelming majority. So why suddenly these many votes for systemd?
Yes, it's difficult to just say I want sysVinit, or I don't want systemd, and I don't want to be able to help realize it. But nevertheless I have an opinion and I am convinced that systemd is a monster that goes far beyond what an Init system should be and thus violates the KISS principle.
And if MX should become a pure systemd, then I have to look for something else, as hard as it is for me. Fortunately, there are still alternatives.

many greetings gosia

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Artim
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#35

Post by Artim » Sun May 19, 2019 8:08 am

If Buster makes it impossible for MX to avoid systemd, I have an alternative already picked out, with the same mission as MX: To make Linux user-friendly without all the unpredictability and instability of most of the "newbie-friendly" distros. This one isn't quite so newbie-friendly, but responsible newbies who are willing to learn a little will find it intuitive and easy to use:

https://wp.me/p51xQV-i4

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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#36

Post by richb » Sun May 19, 2019 8:10 am

If I look at the survey from April 16th viewtopic.php?f=94&t=49723
it doesn't seem to be a big problem. 89% use sysVinit, that's an overwhelming majority. So why suddenly these many votes for systemd?
Not a big surprise since sysvinit is the default option. It does not ask " what init system would you prefer", just what are you using.
As I have said before I do not care, as long as it works, (echoing AK-47).
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KBD
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#37

Post by KBD » Sun May 19, 2019 9:25 am

To echo what Rich said, that poll only asks what people are using, the default is of course going to win. It doesn't ask what init you would choose if only left with one choice.
I'd add, what would you choose if your apps and other parts of your computer Only work with systemd?

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handy
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#38

Post by handy » Sun May 19, 2019 10:06 am

The systemd shenanigans over on the Arch forum back in the days after it became known that Arch was going that way. Followed by the ongoing fights & disrespect shown by many (but not all) Arch forum staff to those that disagreed with the "new" path, all combined to drive me away from Arch. (I was involved in no arguments re. systemd on the Arch forum, I just observed.)

I ended up back in BSD land & primarily using OpenBSD. Then I found Manjaro in late 2011 & ran with it due to the attitude of philm & others, plus the small community was great. artoo came over to Manjaro bringing the OpenRC init with him, & many of us were very happy to use OpenRC, which only got better with time.

artoo separated his OpenRC init based distro from Manjaro, as it was easier to maintain using the Arch repos rather than the Manjaro ones. Still a huge job though. I used Artix until I struck a problem with the PIA-VPN GUI not being able to install on Artix due to the GUI requiring a standard Arch repo layout.

I looked at Devuan & another relative before I found MX & antiX.

If MX goes systemd then I'll swap my MX machine over to antiX, (I have one on antiX & another which is a mongrelfied antiX/MX cross). If antiX goes systemd then I'll probably just head back to OpenBSD (& put up with using openvpn without the wonderful PIA-VPN GUI).

I'm grateful for the work of the dev's & the package making/testing people on all distros/OS's. I'm not telling or asking you guys to do anything. Do what you like. If I don't like it, I'll just move on saying thanks for the ride, I enjoyed it while it lasted/suited me. :) ;)
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asqwerth
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#39

Post by asqwerth » Sun May 19, 2019 10:18 am

KBD wrote:...that poll only asks what people are using, the default is of course going to win. It doesn't ask what init you would choose if only left with one choice.
I'd add, what would you choose if your apps and other parts of your computer Only work with systemd?
On the other hand, for users who have been happily using default init on MX (whether they know or care what an init is or not), then subject to the proviso -- don't get me wrong, this is certainly crucial -- that the applications they use continue to work in sysV in Buster, there shouldn't be an issue.

Whether that is the case or not, let's see and let the devs sort it out.
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Re: Systemd free MX19?

#40

Post by dreamer » Sun May 19, 2019 10:25 am

KBD wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:25 am
I'd add, what would you choose if your apps and other parts of your computer Only work with systemd?
Windows and antiX. Windows when I can't figure out how to do something with antiX.

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