Welcome!
Important information
-- Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities
-- Change in MX sources

News
-- MX Linux on social media: here
-- Mepis support still here

Current releases
-- MX-17.1 Final release info here
-- antiX-17 release info here

New users
-- Please read this first, and don't forget to add system and hardware information to posts!
-- Here are the Forum Rules

MX Software inclusion

Discussion about the MEPIS Community's Repo.
Message
Author
User avatar
colin_b
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:21 pm

Re: MX Software inclusion

#11 Post by colin_b » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:10 pm

I'm an English speaker and I don't know other languages, but I think a simple method of changing language is a good idea.

I've had a blind dig around to see if I can change MX's language and I've drawn a blank. I'm not interested in actually doing this, I just wanted to see if I could do it. Would it be possible to have an MX Tweak that makes it a simple task to change language? If this could be done the world would be your oyster :happy:

User avatar
dreamer
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:34 am

Re: MX Software inclusion

#12 Post by dreamer » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:40 pm

Some random thoughts that were triggered by other comments:

I agree with a lot of things. For example if Linux as a whole wants to compete with Windows and Mac, Firefox can't be repackaged a hundred times. It needs to be an AppImage (or other universal format, but AppImage is best so far) that is served by Mozilla to the whole Linux community. Ubuntu has the PPA system which makes it easy to move between Ubuntu-based distros. Debian lacks software infrastructure, but could probably use Launchpad set up by millionaire Shuttleworth. Right now Debian distros are like islands without much connection. All the work that is done here in MX Linux doesn't seem to benefit Debian as a whole. Great loss for Debian, but that isn't my problem. That's Debian's problem. Debian might be a better package base than Ubuntu (I think it is), but without a common software eco-system it will always be a less viable platform for distros and users. It's not the number of packages that makes the PPA system strong, because MX Linux has just as many. It's the number of packagers. It may be seen as a security weakness when anyone can set up a PPA and package software, but each user must have a head on their shoulders and PPA related security incidents have been very few. Much safer than Android Play Store I would say.

I think Debian needs more distros that work together if it wants to compete with Ubuntu and Arch (I know it isn't a competition, but the strength of the eco-system is important long-term). It's a little worrying seeing MX Linux rise to the top (becoming THE Debian distro) and an influx of new users (including myself) often demanding MX devs to do this or that. I try to not demand things. My only worry are disruptive backports (Gimp 2.10, Xfce 4.14 and to a lesser extent LO 6.1). I suggested that a separate repo handle those so the Stretch base can be kept relatively clean for existing users. I can understand that MX wants to ship the latest with a new release, but then the "progressive repo" could be enabled by default. I'll take a look at Mint 19 in case MX isn't conservative enough for me, but I don't doubt MX Linux is the better distro. I could probably swallow both Gimp 2.10 and LO 6.1 with ease and Xfce 4.14 has been pushed to "sometime in 2019" so right now there's not much reason for concern for myself.

As users we can come with suggestions, but ultimately it's not worth much unless the suggestions are backed up by working code. One of the unique features of MX is that the devs are active on the forum. If the requests and feature suggestions become too many, maybe they will feel overwhelmed and disappear from the forum like many distro maintainers before them. I have learned quite a lot during my short time with MX Linux, especially where to look for certain files. Since "everything" is a text file one of the key areas to master when using Linux is being able to identify the file you want to modify. With the devs on the forum (including the antiX devs) I feel collectively MX Linux can be understood from top to bottom and any problem solved. I don't think other forums can understand a systemd-based distro like that. It's a different kind of complexity that even Canonical is struggling with.

User avatar
Stevo
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 16151
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: MX Software inclusion

#13 Post by Stevo » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:39 pm

I did just set up Gimp 2.10.4 in an independent OBS repo after doing it for our test repo. But we are relying on tester's reports before we think about moving it to main--we won't if anyone has problems with it, so speak up if you do!

https://build.opensuse.org/project/show ... -backports#

XFCE 4.14 isn't even a twinkle in our eyes yet.

User avatar
asqwerth
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 3253
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:37 am

Re: MX Software inclusion

#14 Post by asqwerth » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:31 am

dreamer wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:40 pm
...... My only worry are disruptive backports (Gimp 2.10, Xfce 4.14 and to a lesser extent LO 6.1). I suggested that a separate repo handle those so the Stretch base can be kept relatively clean for existing users. I can understand that MX wants to ship the latest with a new release, but then the "progressive repo" could be enabled by default. I'll take a look at Mint 19 in case MX isn't conservative enough for me, but I don't doubt MX Linux is the better distro. I could probably swallow both Gimp 2.10 and LO 6.1 with ease and Xfce 4.14 has been pushed to "sometime in 2019" so right now there's not much reason for concern for myself....
I agree with @dreamer regarding worrying about disruptive backports. The GIMP and VLC 3 updates seemed to cause a fair bit of problems, which I feel should be avoided if possible because MX is based on Debian Stable and its reputation is built a lot on its stability.

I know the VLC update was required due to security holes in VLC2, but still....

Sure, this GIMP update is supposed to be a major milestone, but if it necessitates the adding of upgraded libraries and dependencies that might not be compatible with Debian Stretch in general, surely it should remain in MX Test Repo indefinitely. Otherwise it will be as bad as users installing packages from Debian Testing/Sid or from PPAs. :-P

I just worry that updated packages are being moved too fast into the Main Repo. If there is no feedback from users - and remember, some users make their request and then are never heard of again - then leave it in Test Repo.

@dreamer, I understand from some comments made by MX Devs that until XFCE 4.14 is available in Debian's Stable or backports Repo (not withstanding general release by XFCE Devs), it is not even being considered for MX Linux at all.

Meanwhile, I believe there is still lots of life left in gtk2 XFCE 4.12.

I've done a full conversion from gtk2 4.12 to gtk3 XFCE 4.13++ in my secondary Manjaro installation (not touching my main one!), and there are still some issues with it. These can be seen from the bugs being reported in their forum thread dealing with Manjaro 18 Beta (which will be their first iso released with gtk3 XFCE as default).

I foresee continuing to use gtk2 XFCE on my main Manjaro partition for a long time more. I suspect it will keep chugging along, the same way LXDE is still going on even after it was supposed to be succeeded by LXQT. In Manjaro, the gtk3 XFCE packages all have "-gtk3" tagged onto their package name, so as of now, XFCE gtk3 is a separate DE and strand from XFCE gtk2. One is not going to suddenly find after an update to their xfce gtk2 system that all their xfce packages have been updated to gtk3 versions of the packages.
Desktop: Intel i5-4460, 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics
Clevo N130WU-based Ultrabook: Intel i7-8550U (Kaby Lake R), 16GB RAM, Intel integrated graphics (UEFI)
ASUS X42D laptop: AMD Phenom II, 6GB RAM, Mobility Radeon HD 5400

User avatar
HessenZone
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:17 am

Re: MX Software inclusion

#15 Post by HessenZone » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:41 am

colin_b wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:10 pm
I'm an English speaker and I don't know other languages, but I think a simple method of changing language is a good idea.

I've had a blind dig around to see if I can change MX's language and I've drawn a blank. I'm not interested in actually doing this, I just wanted to see if I could do it. Would it be possible to have an MX Tweak that makes it a simple task to change language? If this could be done the world would be your oyster :happy:
Changing the language *AFTER* the installation is finished, does not work so good at all. It's supposed to, but it does not. I've installed languages from the boot screen by using F2, and the installed language pack is much more accurate for some reason. When I switched languages after an installation had already completed, I had some irritating, time consuming language issues with LibreOffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird. Probably more, but those were the apps that impacted me almost immediately.
.

MX Linux Rocks, in America, in Europa, in Australien, einfach ÜBERALL. :linuxlove:

User avatar
fehlix
Forum Guide
Forum Guide
Posts: 1414
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: MX Software inclusion

#16 Post by fehlix » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:35 am

HessenZone wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:41 am
... I had some irritating, time consuming language issues ....
@HessenZone, would you mind to change the localization option as described in the User's Guide chapter "3.7 Localization" before complaining about your irritation in this forum?
Thanks.

User avatar
HessenZone
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:17 am

Re: MX Software inclusion

#17 Post by HessenZone » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:57 am

I described exactly what happened. Find someoen else to pick on, Fehlix. I'm an experienced MX user with excellent language results after choosing a language via F2 during the start of installation, and I was able to compare those language results to the same condition on the same version of MX, but this time with the language packs installed after MX was installed. That experience was nowhere near as rewarding and required some time to get corrected within some apps that I use on the desktop. I reported exactly what happened, nothing more and nothing less. There is no basis for your comment.
.

MX Linux Rocks, in America, in Europa, in Australien, einfach ÜBERALL. :linuxlove:

User avatar
Jerry3904
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 22419
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:13 am

Re: MX Software inclusion

#18 Post by Jerry3904 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:29 am

Easy, let's not go down the familiar path.
Production: 4.15.0-1-amd64, MX-17.1, AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core, GeForce GT 630/PCIe/SSE2, 8 GB, Kingston SSD 120 GB and WesternDigital 1TB
Testing: AAO 722: 4.15.0-1-386. MX-17.1, AMD C-60 APU, 4 GB

User avatar
fehlix
Forum Guide
Forum Guide
Posts: 1414
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:09 pm

Re: MX Software inclusion

#19 Post by fehlix » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:30 am

Well, you wrote:
When I switched languages after an installation had already completed, I had some irritating, time consuming language issues with LibreOffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird.
You might have done something differently compared to the process decribed in the manual. If you let us know exactly what you have done to "switched languages", we might find the reason for your irritations. This is a help forum for MX Linux user, just complaining without giving details, what you have done, is simply not enough to get help. And is irritating other users, too.

User avatar
HessenZone
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:17 am

Re: MX Software inclusion

#20 Post by HessenZone » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:19 am

What I did was to install MX without knowing that language options were available during the start of the live session. At the time that this happened someone pointed out that the language problem could have been avoided altogether if I had only chosen the correct language right from the moment that I received the F2 option on the screen during the boot/installation process. That, and that alone is IMO the proper solution for anyone who's seeking perfect language options on their desktop.

Most people these days don't like to read manuals, and I find that many people will intentionally avoid reading. So directing people to do something "undesireable" which may also be time consuming, is not the proper way to help someone fix a problem. But that's just my opinion, based on my hands-on direct interaction with dozens of people whom I've been helping to switch to Linux. Since an MX installation only requires 5 - 10 minutes of time, simply boot up your live USB or DVD, immediately select the correct language by using F2, and then commence with the remainder of the installation. Problem solved. Since that day, that's what I have done and since that day I haven't experienced any language issues worth talking about any more.
I do believe this thread is veering off-topic ...
.

MX Linux Rocks, in America, in Europa, in Australien, einfach ÜBERALL. :linuxlove:

Post Reply

Return to “CR Discussion”