Welcome!

The kernel problem with recent updates has been solved. Find the solution here

Important information
-- Required MX 15/16 Repository Changes
-- Information on torrent hosting changes
-- Information on MX15/16 GPG Keys
-- Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities

News
-- Introducing our new Website
-- MX Linux on social media: here

Current releases
-- MX-18.3 Point Release release info here
-- Migration Information to MX-18 here
-- antiX-17.4.1 release info here

New users
-- Please read this first, and don't forget to add system and hardware information to posts!
-- Here are the Forum Rules

To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

User avatar
oops
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 729
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:07 pm

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#31

Post by oops » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:25 am

timkb4cq wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:23 pm
...
But systemd certainly tries to do too much, needlessly reinventing wheels, gears, levers, and pipes. Some of its bits are quite useful but I don't want it in charge.
+1
$ inxi -Fxxxz : System: Host:XEON ... Distro: MX-18_x64 Continuum

zimbodel
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#32

Post by zimbodel » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:35 pm

systemd is a ball of crap.
I currently have about 3 staple linux sysadmin related issues of software I used for years and rely on suddenly wont install etc.
I really like MX, but next OS install I am running as far a way from it as possible due to this.
I have for example Samba that fails to work on MX due to this etc.
Systemd will eventually bring a lot of linux down or make it very impalatable.
I dont mind new, but not this kind of irresponsible "systemd"new.
Since installing MX it has been 1/2 a year of battling software that were stalwarts for decades.
Unacceptable and maybe worse .... irresponsible and undermining linux at its core abandoning init etc.

User avatar
richb
Administrator
Posts: 18871
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:17 pm

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#33

Post by richb » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:09 pm

You do know MX is a sysvinit system, not systemd unless you choose the advanced option in the boot menu.
Forum Rules
Guide - How to Ask for Help

Rich
SSD Production: MX 18.1
AMD A8 7600 FM2+ CPU R7 Graphics, 16 GIG Mem. Three Samsung EVO SSD's 250 GB, 350 GB HD

User avatar
Jerry3904
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 24719
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:13 am

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#34

Post by Jerry3904 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:22 pm

zimbodel wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:35 pm
systemd is a ball of crap.
I currently have about 3 staple linux sysadmin related issues of software I used for years and rely on suddenly wont install etc.
I really like MX, but next OS install I am running as far a way from it as possible due to this.
I have for example Samba that fails to work on MX due to this etc.
Systemd will eventually bring a lot of linux down or make it very impalatable.
I dont mind new, but not this kind of irresponsible "systemd"new.
Since installing MX it has been 1/2 a year of battling software that were stalwarts for decades.
Unacceptable and maybe worse .... irresponsible and undermining linux at its core abandoning init etc.
I'm sorry, but this is all FUD.
Production: 4.15.0-1-amd64, MX-17.1, AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core, GeForce GT 630/PCIe/SSE2, 8 GB, SSD 120 GB, Data 1TB
Testing: AAO 722: 4.15.0-1-386. MX-17.1, AMD C-60 APU, 4 GB
Personal: XPS 13, 4.18.0-19.3-liquorix, 4 GB

zimbodel
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#35

Post by zimbodel » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:28 pm

A good article for those like me, that prefer Debian based systems but get caught up in Systemd problems.
Basically Debian Fork without systemd. That is the way I am going in the future with all my servers.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/debian-wi ... md-devuan/

zimbodel
Forum Novice
Forum  Novice
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#36

Post by zimbodel » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:48 pm

Then why the hell is it running on my MX18 out of the box.
I will be VERY glad to get rid of systemd.
I tried to uninstsll systemd and it brought the entire MX18 installation down.
So howcome an uninstall brings down Mx18, if according to you MX18 do not use it.
Talk about misinformation.

[/quote]I'm sorry, but this is all FUD.
[/quote]

User avatar
Jerry3904
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
Posts: 24719
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:13 am

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#37

Post by Jerry3904 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:59 pm

Maybe you should read a bit about MX Linux on this question. Here's a good start:

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd/
Production: 4.15.0-1-amd64, MX-17.1, AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core, GeForce GT 630/PCIe/SSE2, 8 GB, SSD 120 GB, Data 1TB
Testing: AAO 722: 4.15.0-1-386. MX-17.1, AMD C-60 APU, 4 GB
Personal: XPS 13, 4.18.0-19.3-liquorix, 4 GB

User avatar
dreamer
Forum Regular
Forum Regular
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:34 am

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#38

Post by dreamer » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:19 pm

zimbodel wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:28 pm
A good article for those like me, that prefer Debian based systems but get caught up in Systemd problems.
Basically Debian Fork without systemd. That is the way I am going in the future with all my servers.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/debian-wi ... md-devuan/
Since MX Linux doesn''t use Systemd as init the main problem with Systemd is packages that rely on it. MX Linux tries to solve it with Debian packages like CUPS. But then there are third party packages like Snap and Snap packages that rely on Systemd. Several VPN applications and other applications also seem to rely on Systemd.

Devuan may have a base system that is free from Systemd (just like antiX), but as soon as you add stuff outside of those repos you may run into problems.

Systemd is like the new Pulseaudio. Firefox and other applications rely on Pulseaudio so if you don't use Pulseaudio expect sound problems with certain applications.

Then on the horizon is Wayland. Gnome and KDE (Kwin) don't develop X.org (X server) specific features anymore and new stuff is targeting Wayland.

So if you like "classic Linux" like myself you are going to be more of a "niche user" in the future. Doesn't matter if you use Devuan. Devuan doesn't have more packages than Debian. But for servers you probably don't need more packages anyway so Devuan might be a good choice for a Systemd free server.

For a desktop system like MX Linux it's pretty cool (and future-proof) that you can choose your init. I don't know of any other distro that lets you do this out of the box. It's a feature.

User avatar
Richard
Posts: 2724
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:31 am

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#39

Post by Richard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:37 pm

Using systemd with MX can only happen by choice.
The default is sysvinit.

And, if you choose systemd then you are running an untested system, not MX18.
Devs may try to support you, but it is not the interest.
MX18 is designed to avoid systemd init.

If you don't want to see systemd in the system,
you'll have to go back to Devuan to help them catch up, or BSD.
Last edited by Richard on Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LT: MX18.3: Thinkpad T430: DualCore, Intel i5-3320M, Ivy Bridge; 8GB RAM; 4.19.0-5-amd64; 119GB SSD 840PRO, Intel Graphics-Audio-Network
NB: MX18.1, antiX17.4: AsusTek EeePC 1005HA: Intel DualCore Atom N270, 1GB RAM, 4.19.0-1-686, 150GB HDD

skidoo
Forum Guide
Forum Guide
Posts: 1427
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:56 pm

Re: To systemd or not systemd - Ever wonder about it?

#40

Post by skidoo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:38 pm

Well said, dreamer!

zimbodel, many of us posting here are well aware of Devuan, thankyouverymuch.
Evident from your posts, you (seriously) have a few points of misunderstanding regarding cause and effect, and whatall is going on "behind the scenes, under the hood" of the operating system.

~ skidoo, aka "kriv", one of the https://without-systemd.org wiki maintainers
Last edited by skidoo on Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Locked

Return to “Software / Configuration”