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Snapshots

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technwarnersprings
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Snapshots

#1 Post by technwarnersprings » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:50 pm

I just tried creating an .iso snapshot of my system before I try fixing my sound and work-space issue and I'm sad to report that the tool, while convenient, fried my MoBo. I started the snapshot then stepped away for 10 minutes and when I returned the system was off. I tried to restart it but the system just gives me 3 beeps, then powers down.

What could have happened during the snapshot process to cause such a catastrophic failure?

All the Best!
technwarnersprings
PS If anyone wants to donate an old laptop, please let me know.

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Richard
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Re: Snapshots

#2 Post by Richard » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:57 pm

Interesting.
Could you post some info of the laptop involved?
Well, probably not, if it won't boot, but some of the particulars.

Snapshot pushes the system but haven't heard of anything like this.
MX17.1____: T430-2017, 8 GB RAM, 4.15.0-1-amd64, 119 SSD
antiX-/MX-171: AA1/Eee, 1 GB RAM, 4.15.0-1-686-pae, 149 HDD
DC9, LibO605, Dropbox, FF61, FFesr, mPDFed, Py3, CherryT, Vbox
linux counter #288562

technwarnersprings
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Re: Snapshots

#3 Post by technwarnersprings » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:38 pm

Richard,

You can find the specs in my first post entitled "Volume Control and Workspaces".

Thanks!

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Richard
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Re: Snapshots

#4 Post by Richard » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:25 pm

OK,

Code: Select all

System:	Host: Kernel: 4.15.0-1-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Xfce 4.12.3 
	Distro: MX-17.1_x64 Horizon March 14, 2018 
Machine:	Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Pavilion g6 Notebook PCC 
	Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 1695 v: KBC Version 15.1F serial: N/A 
	BIOS: Hewlett-Packard v: F.34 date: 06/14/2012 
Battery:	ID-1: BAT0 charge: 39.4 Wh condition: 39.4/39.4 Wh (100%) 
CPU:		Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i3-2310M bits: 64 type: MT MCP 
	L2 cache: 3072 KiB  
	Speed: 798 MHz min/max: 800/2100 MHz 
	Core speeds (MHz): 1: 806 2: 800 3: 798 4: 798 
Graphics: Card-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics 
	driver: i915 v: kernel 
	Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa 
resolution: 1366x768~60Hz 
	OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Sandybridge Mobile v: 3.3 Mesa 13.0.6 
Audio:
Seems normal enough.

I did find this:
https://www.quora.com/Why-my-HP-Pavilio ... ing-Ubuntu
though it is a slightly different model.

I guess we don't know what happened it those 10 minutes.
We'll wait for one of the developers to give an opinion.
MX17.1____: T430-2017, 8 GB RAM, 4.15.0-1-amd64, 119 SSD
antiX-/MX-171: AA1/Eee, 1 GB RAM, 4.15.0-1-686-pae, 149 HDD
DC9, LibO605, Dropbox, FF61, FFesr, mPDFed, Py3, CherryT, Vbox
linux counter #288562

skidoo
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Re: Snapshots

#5 Post by skidoo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:31 am

Snapshot pushes the system but haven't heard of anything like this.
Yes, I can confirm ~~ during isosnapshot, one of the older dual-core machines here will overheat and shutdown if "use all cores" is selected.

On every other affected PC, cleaning (vacuuming) the fins of the CPU radiator and re-applying fresh thermal paste between CPU and radiator has resolved the overheat+shutdown problem. For that chug-a-long (nearly 24/7 across 12yrs and hasn't died) dual-core PC, unticking "use all cores" is required (or it will consistently, predictably shudown during the mksquashfs portion of the snapshot operation).

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Eadwine Rose
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Re: Snapshots

#6 Post by Eadwine Rose » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:08 am

I have the same problem and have a 4 core, well cleaned out and normally runs quite cool. IIRC it also ate up all the ram that I have and slows things down to a crawl. I don't even dare to use it anymore.


Where is this use all cores setting? Can't find it?
MX-17.1_x64 Horizon 14-3-2018 * 4.15.0-1-amd64 ext4 Xfce 4.12.3 * AMD Asus M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 * ASUS GF GT640-1GD5-L NVIDIA 384.130 * AMD Proc. Athl II X4 635, sAM3 * HDA ATI SB VT1708S An * 2x4Gb DDR3 1600 Kingst * 22" Samsung SyncM P2250 * HP F2280

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m_pav
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Re: Snapshots

#7 Post by m_pav » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:10 am

The reason for the failure is simply that it was a consumer level HP. Entry level HP machines (IMNSHO, all consumer models) have a history of dying mid-use due to cost cutting measures during manufacture. The largest consistent string of failures can usually be traced to the power circuit feeding the CPU.

When a consumer level HP dies, it's always par for the course, never the software running on the machine, though a poorly performing OS like a weighted down Windows system will hasten its death.

In your case, your CPU had a longer duration demand for high power and the circuits just did what was natural for them, die. That's just the way with HP consumer electronics.
Mike P

Regd Linux User #472293
(Mine)Lenovo T560, i7-6600U, 16GB, 2.0TB SSHD, MX17 64-bit
(Wifes) Asus M4A88TD-M, AMD Phenom II x4 955 CPU, nVidia GF610, 6Gb, 500GB+320GB, MX17 + KDE
(Kids) Intel NUC, J1900, 4GB, 64GB SSD, MX17

skidoo
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Re: Snapshots

#8 Post by skidoo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:38 am

Where is this use all cores setting? Can't find it?
Ahhh, right. I must be thinking of one of the other tools which uses squashfs.
Also, what I was describing -- a non-permanent (thermal throttling, and) shutdown -- is off-the-mark for the OP.

"3 beeps"
bios POST code for ?memory error ?video
In that scenario I would:
remove the AC cord, then push power button (reputedly drains any residual capacitor charge on some systems)
pull the video card (if its a discrete card) and the memory
scuff the card edge contacts with a pink pencil eraser, swab with alcohol
... and after they've dried, reseat the cards and then boot.

technwarnersprings
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Re: Snapshots

#9 Post by technwarnersprings » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:38 pm

Thank you all for your support! I love this OS and will make it my daily driver when I can afford a new PC. I look forward to seeing it rise into the top 5 very soon. I don't understand why Mint, Manjaro and Ubuntu are rated so highly on DistroWatch.

All the Best!
technwarnersprings

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Stevo
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Re: Snapshots

#10 Post by Stevo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm

Snapshot will push all cores at 100% usage for a protracted period, but so will many other operations, such as video transcoding with Handbrake, or compiling some software. So there's nothing that unusual about mx-snapshot.

Questions:

Did you notice how hot the machine would run before it died?
Did you ever do any operations before with the laptop that would stress it for long periods?

Offtopic: Are you in Warner Springs in San Diego County?

Modern processors and GPUs will throttle down when they exceed a certain critical temperature to prevent just this type of thing. There's also a trick of using lzo compression for the snapshot, which will not stress the CPU and is much, much faster, but creates a considerably larger ISO.

I can run my current Acer laptop with Skylake 6200u low power processor at full steam with the clock at Turbo 2.8 GHz for many hours at a time and it doesn't get over 161 F (72 C) at room temperatures. That will probably be lower with the 4.17 kernel, unless that's a fan threshold or something. It will interesting to see what happens with a laptop with the i7-8750H six-core 12-thread CPU running full out.
Last edited by Stevo on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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